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What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

kotaku.com.au

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Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#71

Post by dreinhardt »

save_ferris wrote: post #46
bgeeek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I was more disturbed by the news on TV when I was a kid, which was long before even remotely realistic games started appearing. There are so many depictions of violence in everyday life be it video games, the news, movies, music, and even art. I wonder if they had the same conversations back in the day, e.g. battle of 1066 etc, etc.

Same, I've been fascinated by the role of violence as entertainment throughout history, but I struggle to find good reading material about it. Unfortunately, whenever I ask around for recommendations or research on this topic online, people assume that I'm anti-violence.

There is a good episode of Dan Carlin‘s Hardcore History podcast that might serve as a starting point: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-61-blitz-...

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#72

Post by TeMPOraL »

Insanity wrote: post #55
malvosenior wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One point of view is that it's important for people who have not been in combat to see these things. It makes war less abstract and educates people on what the reality of combat is like.

A counter-argument is that it romanticizes / glorifies it. They don't get the reality because that's about impossible (or makes for a depressing movie).

I think both are true. In a parallel comment, 'majos mentions Saving Private Ryan. Watching it as a kid, the Normandy landing scene shook me deeply, and it was the turning moment for me, when things I was learning in history classes at school suddenly stopped being abstract stories.

Since then, I've seen countless on-screen deaths, many of them successfully pulling off romanticizing & glorification of killing. Both the "Private Ryan" scenes and the "romanticizing combat" scenes look superficially similar in terms of gore, but the context matters a lot. Upthread, 'stevenwoo mentions the "killing villagers" Warcraft 3 mission. I played that mission back in the days, and reading about it now reminded me of the feelings of disgust I had. The details of this mission cleanly communicated the killing as an immoral act - as opposed to the exact same animations being shown when you play the game against a computer or human player, outside campaign mode, and happen to attack your enemy's base (AFAIR those villagers in campaign used the same, or similar, model as Human Peon unit in the game).

IMO it's clear that it's the context which frames acts of violence that can make them a lesson in empathy or a glorification of brutality. It's not about the violent acts themselves.

(ETA: I also played the Modern Warfare's airport massacre mission. Didn't fire a single shot towards the civilians. Ended up being thoroughly shaken, disgusted, and wishing I didn't play it at all.)

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#73

Post by Parcle »

daenz wrote: post #25

I've always felt that the Mortal Kombat games were sick. I remember when I played my first violent video game as a kid and saw over-the-top gore, and feeling cold, like not just at what I had seen, but that it was deliberately placed for me to see it. And I remember feeling like I had to hide my disgust from my peers who would think I was weak for not being thrilled by it. Maybe I'm just getting older now, but when y…

I believe people process violence in media differently. I'm not necessarily drawn to it, so MK11 isn't on my list of games to play. But it also doesn't affect me beyond the knee jerk.

Even though these deaths are "photo realistic", the context is not. The clean limp bodies of the pets I've owned have haunted me a million times more than anything I've seen in MK. That's how I know death. Just a lifeless body. The spectacle of gory violence doesn't really connect with my experiences of death.

Sorry if your own experiences have been different.

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#74

Post by TeMPOraL »

dqybh wrote: post #62
erikpukinskis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is soccer mom puritanism? I've never heard of that.

Thankfully, Google has: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_mom

I knew the term, but holy hell, I didn't realize it was created and used as a positive description. I've always thought of the term and the image it conveyed as being strictly derogatory / insulting.

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#75

Post by wodenokoto »

some-guy wrote: post #24

I grew up on 90s video game violence. Doom, Mortal Kombat, Duke Nukem, etc. I've found that over time, the type of violence that disturbs me is the one that is the most realistic. I had friends growing up who joined the military because they _loved_ games like Call of Duty and Counter-Strike. Many of those friends came back with severe cases of PTSD. Mortal Kombat 11, Doom (the reboot), are not for everyone. But It's…

That's the whole point of the article - the final output might not be realistic enough to be actually disturbing, but the process to get there has required many people to absorb a lot of very, very disturbing content.

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#76

Post by daenz »

stevenwoo wrote: post #23

I have worked on ultra-violent games but never did research on what actual killings looked like as referenced in the article. As the one quote said, context is important as well as how close something gets to realistic looking. That embedded Mortal Kombat trailer was pretty unrealistic looking IMO, the physics was cartoon like and several what would be real life death blows were not death blows until the fight was ov…

>That embedded Mortal Kombat trailer was pretty unrealistic looking IMO, the physics was cartoon like and several what would be real life death blows were not death blows until the fight was over.

It's still super exaggerated, but FWIW, the trailer is pretty mild compared to the actual content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iynVeWhFqsw

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#77

Post by jjeaff »

matz1 wrote: post #6
unicornporn wrote: post #4

Had a really hard time watching that trailer. Makes me question if the developers have researched what level of gore their audience finds acceptable in an age of near photo realistic gaming.

Different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of people who find photo realistic gore entertaining.

But as a society, I think there are lines to be drawn on what is a socially acceptable form of entertainment.

Not saying the line should be drawn here necessarily, but I don't think chalking it up to everyone being different is acceptable.

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#78

Post by folex »

failrate wrote: post #53

The real shame for me is that Mortal Kombat is not even a particularly good game. Right now, fighting game fans are spoiled for choice with well-designed interfaces and competitive, balanced character design. Plug for my personal favorite: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Thanks for the recommendation!

What are others good fighting games that run on PC and support couch co-op with joysticks?

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#79

Post by ralusek »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #65
ralusek wrote: post #27

Kotaku. ".au" For those that don't know, Australia has censorship practices that America would consider absolutely absurd. Kotaku are similarly inclined in encouraging a kind of puritanical sensibility of their own variety. I would find this article much more interesting if I didn't get the impression that its author would happily legislate away developer and consumer freedoms to make and/or play whatever games they'…

You're making way too many assumptions. There's no reason to think Midway is either unwilling or unable to make accommodations. There's also no reason to think that if someone experiences trauma working on this stuff that they're forever unable to do the work. I think your mindset, that someone who is having an issue completing their work should just not do that job, is a really toxic mindset. Workers can adapt to th…

I say:

> If your employer has you working on something that really bothers you, and they're not able or willing to place you on something else, then that doesn't sound like a good fit for employment

You say:

> Workers can adapt to their work, but companies also can adapt the workplace to the workforce. Your attitude, that hiring a more resilient worker is the solution to every breakdown...

My initial statement suggested that the appropriate action was to seek an alternative employer, given that they are unwilling or unable to accommodate. If they're able and willing to accommodate, then there is no problem. You've completely mischaracterized my position.

Re: What It's Like to Work on Ultra-Violent Games Like Mortal Kombat

#80

Post by malvosenior »

jjeaff wrote: post #77
matz1 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of people who find photo realistic gore entertaining.

But as a society, I think there are lines to be drawn on what is a socially acceptable form of entertainment. Not saying the line should be drawn here necessarily, but I don't think chalking it up to everyone being different is acceptable.

Couldn't disagree more. We should stop worrying about what other people are doing for entertainment. Totally fine if you don't want to play or watch violent media but judging others and calling their enjoyment unacceptable is a pretty far departure from an open and free society.
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