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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#521

Post by goto11 »

wildermuthn wrote: post #183
dcole2929 wrote: post #49

In the majority of companies it's simply not possible to operate on the bleeding edge the way HN articles would have you believe you should. Besides the obvious issues around the value of rewriting stable legacy systems on new platforms, there are also man power issues. You need tier 1 developers to live on the bleeding edge because any problem that comes up (and they will come up) largely requires you to solve it yo…

Good points here. Which is why HN is oriented toward startups with Tier 1 engineers. PG and his cofounders invented the web app, using a combination of old tech (lisp) and new (the internet). There are plenty of other forums and sites to read about conventional tech. HN is where I find the bleeding edge. 90% of it is just fascinating. But the other 10% offer tantalizing possibilities for making something novel, which…

You are assuming "tier 1 engineers" are also the ones using the bleeding edge technologies. This is not true in my experience. The best developers care a lot about using the best tools available for a particular task - which is very different from using the newest tools avaialbe. In reality it typically takes a long time for a tool to become mature enough for productive use, at which point it is not cutting edge anymore.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#522

Post by pron »

Sindisil wrote: post #484
jscholes wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, other than the fact that it only supports Linux and MacOS.

Is that true? The build instructions are for a Posix-like evironment, but I haven't actually looked to see if the actual implementation supports Windows yet. As someone who runs Windows and Linux about equally, in differing proportions over time, I do find it disappointing that some (b)leading edge JVM and Java features don't support Windows yet.

It's a prototype. It will support Windows when it's released, and probably sooner. We're literally changing it every day, and it's hard and not very productive to make these daily changes on multiple platforms, especially as none of the current developers use Windows (this is changing soon, though).

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#523

Post by he0001 »

jayd16 wrote: post #512
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen a microservices architecture where transactions spanning services were trivial.

If you need to do that then you've most likely cut along the wrong service boundry. Same thing can happen in a monolith, although you can kludge something out with spaghetti code I suppose. Doing it the right way in both cases takes about the same amount of work.

How do you cut your service boundaries?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#524

Post by guggle »

gerbilly wrote: post #270
0db532a0 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are Java programmers implementing RESTFUL APIs these days?

https://www.dropwizard.io/ Quoting from the site: Dropwizard is a Java framework for developing ops-friendly, high-performance, RESTful web services. It's a nice microframework which comes with built in health-checks, and metrics and it's also ops friendly because it deploys as a single JAR file.

Not really related to Dropwizard but... this:

> mvn archetype:generate -DarchetypeGroupId=io.dropwizard.archetypes -DarchetypeArtifactId=java-simple -DarchetypeVersion=[REPLACE WITH A VALID DROPWIZARD VERSION]

Why is it that everytime I read something about Java I have a feeling it was not meant for humans ? Not as bad as C++ projects setup though, I'll give it that.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#525

Post by gerbilly »

guggle wrote: post #524
gerbilly wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.dropwizard.io/ Quoting from the site: Dropwizard is a Java framework for developing ops-friendly, high-performance, RESTful web services. It's a nice microframework which comes with built in health-checks, and metrics and it's also ops friendly because it deploys as a single JAR file.

Not really related to Dropwizard but... this: > mvn archetype:generate -DarchetypeGroupId=io.dropwizard.archetypes -DarchetypeArtifactId=java-simple -DarchetypeVersion=[REPLACE WITH A VALID DROPWIZARD VERSION] Why is it that everytime I read something about Java I have a feeling it was not meant for humans ? Not as bad as C++ projects setup though, I'll give it that.

I don't use maven archetypes too often, the rest of maven seems pretty good to me, but maybe I'm just used to it.

I have done a lot more Java than Javascript, so I feel the same about npm error messages.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#526

Post by chimpburger »

ptx wrote: post #519
chimpburger wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider that as basically no multithreading support. CPython multithreading is useless in comparison. Those benchmarks indicate that the Jython compiler is far from optimal. The equivalent code rewritten in Java would be an order of magnitude faster. https://julialang.org/benchmarks/ (note the single Python outlier there is the result of calling a C library for matrix calculation). Anyway, the JVM and CPython are…

All that might very well be true, but I was responding to your assertion that "The JVM ... can even run Python code (Jython) faster than CPython".

Somewhere I heard that was the case, but I didn't verify it. These benchmarks show Jython performing hundreds of times worse. spectral-norm: 0.12 secs for CPython and 4.96 secs for Jython. How can the JVM be 40 times slower than an interpreter? Maybe they didn't warm up the hotspot compiler (amateur mistake), or the Jython compiler is suboptimal. However I compared the code: This https://pybenchmarks.org/u64q/program.php?test=spectralnorm&... versus this https://pybenchmarks.org/u64q/program.php?test=spectralnorm&...

The py3 version is calling numpy which calls a highly optimized C library. So this benchmark suite is worthless. They failed to warm up the JVM hotspot compiler, and they are comparing interpreted Jython with a highly optimized C library called from Python3

The lack of a warmup phase is confirmed by the raw command line and output logs on various benchmarks. Amateurs. This is a highly misleading set of results on multiple levels.

https://wiki.python.org/jython/JythonFaq/GeneralInfo#How_fas...

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#527

Post by guggle »

gerbilly wrote: post #525
guggle wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really related to Dropwizard but... this: > mvn archetype:generate -DarchetypeGroupId=io.dropwizard.archetypes -DarchetypeArtifactId=java-simple -DarchetypeVersion=[REPLACE WITH A VALID DROPWIZARD VERSION] Why is it that everytime I read something about Java I have a feeling it was not meant for humans ? Not as bad as C++ projects setup though, I'll give it that.

I don't use maven archetypes too often, the rest of maven seems pretty good to me, but maybe I'm just used to it. I have done a lot more Java than Javascript, so I feel the same about npm error messages.

Don't get me started on js/npm stuff...

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#528

Post by nimih »

tamrix wrote: post #505
wildermuthn wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are the kind of comments that make HN so special: knowledgeable and insightful, due to deep experience with the past and critical understanding of the present. It isn’t just a rush to what is shiny and new, but is capable of identifying what is novel and valuable, and is articulate enough to explain why. Normally my comment would be an unnecessary back-slapping, but since the conversation veered this way, I thi…

I never realised how highly some people praise hackernews comments lol Hackernews has an _instagram filter_ where everybody brags about how smart they are. Then there's a bunch of fresh grads who fanboy their favourite tech companies. Then every so often you get a gem of a comment from knowledge leader in the industry. But that's quickly overshadowed by 'my Startup, my Startup, mah Startup' and how everybody wants to…

Current-day HN strikes me as very similar to early 00s Slashdot, albeit more self-serious and with an ideology more informed by SV capitalism/entrepreneurialism than the convoluted politics of open source software.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#529

Post by philwelch »

m0zg wrote: post #425
philwelch wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing. That doesn't have to mean new and shiny. By way of analogy: the F-117 stealth fighter--the world's first operational stealth aircraft--was developed by the best and brightest (Lockheed Martin Skunk Works) and solved the biggest problem (visibility to radar).…

The initial version of F-35 was lifted wholesale from Yakovlev Yak-141. Basically during the wild late 80's early 90's in Russia Lockheed Martin entered into an agreement with the Yakovlev bureau to do who knows what with Yak-141 (which sounds impossible and wild in itself nowadays). The agreement lasted just long enough for them to rip everything off and was then dissolved. http://aviationintel.com/yak-141-freestyle…

That's a massive exaggeration at best. The F-35B variant borrows the lift fan design from the Yak-141. That's a single feature of a single variant of an aircraft that has a half-dozen other completely unrelated features. The Yak-141 didn't have helmet-mounted displays, it wasn't stealthy, it didn't have the new combat information management systems, it wasn't built out of modern composite materials, and so forth.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#530

Post by jskaggz »

endorphone wrote: post #163
bluejay2387 wrote: post #8

Probably one of the most true things I have ever read on this site.

It has been a sentiment that is posted on here just about monthly, and this is surely not the first time you've seen it. Usually it yields a lot of cynical posts with clever new phrases for whatever is new, as if there are a lot of people feeling really defensive for whatever they're using. HN is about the interesting parts of tech, pushing at the edges. Yet the vast majority of developers are developing vanilla IT p…

In your last sentence, the converse also applies to would be trendsetters denigrating mature technologies. I think that the key problem is that people in this industry are quick to play the denigration card in order to justify their own beliefs, instead of fostering an environment of mutual respect. Remember, a lot of the audience of hackernews, for better or for worse, are impressionable green management that aren't exactly qualified to start powering their homes with miniaturized fusion reactors, and would be better off to keep using things like relational databases and cobol if the ends justify the means.

Does this problem play out in respect to experimental medicine I wonder?

j2ee+oracle == aspirin? isomorphic reactjs+node == S100A9 vaccine?

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