U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#11

Post by lgleason » Sun, May 12, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #5

You can wring a dry towel and all you want but never get a drop of water. These people are by and large broke. It’s likely to cost more in enforcement than they’ll get back. At least the IRS will continue to lack funding so the rich don’t have to pay .

There are things in the works to shift some of the liability for defaulted student loans back on to the Universities along with some forgiveness programs attached to these. People who can afford to pay them back should, but the universities need to be held accountable for spiraling out of control costs for programs that students often can't pay back because of lack of market demand for skills and over-priced degrees.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#12

Post by WrtCdEvrydy » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans.

I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of ADMINISTRATIVE HOLD so it has no value until the loans are being paid back. You can easily pick up the payments once you're fully employed.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#13

Post by yasp » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because students generally are poor and so don't have much to lose by declaring bankruptcy. They shrug off massive debts are left with an (ostensibly) valuable degree. Lenders are unable to secure the loan against the borrower's assets, as would generally be the case for a home, auto, or business loan. It's possible that if student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy that, absent a government guarantee, the lender would need to charge a high enough interest rate where the student loan market simply wouldn't function. And a government guarantee combined with student loan dischargeability in bankruptcy would leave US taxpayers holding the bag.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#14

Post by coryrc » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:13 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because your loans have collateral to return (home, car) and education does not.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#15

Post by maxheadroom » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

>Collection costs such as processing fees and costs associated with potential civil litigation can also be added.

What's to stop this from being abused, as the threshold for "potential civil litigation" is probably a low and subjective bar, which the poor couldn't afford to challenge/fight, if they were delinquent anyway...? Also, delinquent is simply late on payments and not defaulted, yeah? One is far more egregious than the other, is it not?

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#16

Post by Thorrez » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #12

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans. I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of ADMINISTRATIVE HOLD so it has no value until the loans are being paid back. You can easily pick up the payments once you're fully employed.

I don't understand how that would work.

I can see 2 values in a degree: 1 the ability to put the degree on your resume, 2 the knowledge and enjoyment you got from the degree. I don't see how it's possible to remove 2. I guess you could remove 1 by making it illegal to put on your resume, but then how would you become "fully employed" when you can't put the degree on your resume?

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#17

Post by sodafountan » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #12

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans. I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of ADMINISTRATIVE HOLD so it has no value until the loans are being paid back. You can easily pick up the payments once you're fully employed.

Your thoughts on the value of a degree are indicative of the massive disconnect we have in our society between an education and a credential.

The reason student loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy is because the value of the degree can't be repossessed by a bank like a house or a car if you default. You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening.

I could very easily acquire a job as a developer simply by knowing the material and how to write code - how I choose to come by that knowledge is my own prerogative but if I take out a loan from a bank to acquire that knowledge then they have nothing to repossess.

You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it.

And trust me if banks and financial institutions could create second-hand markets and derivatives for degrees they would, but that would obviously be pointless. I can't just buy and sell PhD's on e-trade.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#18

Post by freewilly1040 » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

yasp wrote: post #13

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because students generally are poor and so don't have much to lose by declaring bankruptcy. They shrug off massive debts are left with an (ostensibly) valuable degree. Lenders are unable to secure the loan against the borrower's assets, as would generally be the case for a home, auto, or business loan. It's possible that if student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy that, absent a government guarantee, the lender…

Preventing the student loan market from functioning as it is now is a feature, not a bug.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#19

Post by anticensor » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

coryrc wrote: post #14

nimbius wrote: post #10

Disclosure: I work as a blue-collar engine mechanic. Ive never been to college. That having been said, im familiar with debt after the 2008 housing collapse. I lost my truck and my trailer home, partly because of a shady home loan and partly because well, my employer went out of business. That having been said it was relatively easy to discharge these debts. the bank wasnt too upset about the home and offered to help…

Because your loans have collateral to return (home, car) and education does not.

Education has yourself as return.

Re: U.S. Stepping Up Enforcement on Delinquent Student Loans

#20

Post by freeone3000 » Sun, May 12, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

sodafountan wrote: post #17

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans. I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of ADMINISTRATIVE HOLD so it has no value until the loans are being paid back. You can easily pick up the payments once you're fully employed.

Your thoughts on the value of a degree are indicative of the massive disconnect we have in our society between an education and a credential. The reason student loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy is because the value of the degree can't be repossessed by a bank like a house or a car if you default. You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening. I could very easily acquire a job as a devel…

> You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening.

What? No. I attended college because it let me be hired nearly everywhere with much less hassle than having to "work my way up" - nearly everything I learned was useless or rapidly obsolete (if it wasn't obsolete as it was taught).

>You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it.

Except to HR, which is frequently where it matters the most, in actual dollars

It sure would be nice if a college education was about learning and growth and discovering oneself and all the hoopla they feed you during visits and orientation, but it's a structured credentialing system that involves professors for some reason, and it's effectively mandatory for making an above-median wage.