Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
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Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#2This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#3One side of me thinks this is really, really cool.
The other side is running away as fast as possible. If anything shouldn't be developed by committee, it's something that controls a few thousand pounds hurtling down the highway at 70MPH with at best an observant human watching over it.
Here's my reasoning:
Mistakes in Django? Bad things happen.
Mistakes in the Linux kernel? Potentially really bad things happen.
Mistakes in self-driving cars? Really bad things certainly happen.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#4One side of me thinks this is really, really cool. The other side is running away as fast as possible. If anything shouldn't be developed by committee, it's something that controls a few thousand pounds hurtling down the highway at 70MPH with at best an observant human watching over it. Here's my reasoning: Mistakes in Django? Bad things happen. Mistakes in the Linux kernel? Potentially really bad things happen. Mist…
Of course it's extremely cool. I wish this existed when I was in uni and we built self driving prototypes. I also remember how often we messed up completely and would have killed our self if it weren't for us driving at 10 km/h on closed off air strips.
The thing is how this project explicitly tells people to use it is way over the line.
"THIS IS ALPHA QUALITY SOFTWARE FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY. THIS IS NOT A PRODUCT. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLYING WITH LOCAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS. NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED."
This is not going to help Hortz or the other programmers in the project when the government is coming for them.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#5This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail.
It's unlikely he chills until someone dies or property in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars is damaged, and an attorney pursues him personally. A hacker ethos is no defense against a personal judgement you can never repay in a lifetime. Unlike most judgments, punitive damages awards are not dischargeable in bankruptcy as long as the relevant cause of action was based upon willful actions.
The audience won't be a room full of domain experts, but a jury of twelve.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#6This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail.
It's unlikely he chills until someone dies or property in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars is damaged, and an attorney pursues him personally. A hacker ethos is no defense against a personal judgement you can never repay in a lifetime. Unlike most judgments, punitive damages awards are not dischargeable in bankruptcy as long as the relevant cause of action was based upon willful actions. The audience won't…
No Tesla programmers have been arrested for Autopilot-related crashes.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#7One side of me thinks this is really, really cool. The other side is running away as fast as possible. If anything shouldn't be developed by committee, it's something that controls a few thousand pounds hurtling down the highway at 70MPH with at best an observant human watching over it. Here's my reasoning: Mistakes in Django? Bad things happen. Mistakes in the Linux kernel? Potentially really bad things happen. Mist…
To be fair, all self driving systems need to be fully open, to be inspected by the public. They are way too safety critical to be closed silos controlled by each car company.
But I agree, projects like this are also potentially dangerous. How extensive is the testing? Where is the liability? Is that unit running a read-time OS that will not deadlock or have thrashing which could result in a crash? I've written about these and other concerns a few months back:
https://penguindreams.org/blog/self-driving-cars-will-not-so...
Drivers do need to be held to having their hands on the wheel and their eyes on the road (I think it's the Chryslers that actually track your eye movements and alert if your eyes aren't forward).
There is some early evidence to suggest these safety features could make people less attentive or more likely to let themselves be distracted.
Personally I'll stick to my 2006 5-speed car with no auto-cruise or lane assist. It forces me to stay fully aware, and I have to use all four of my appendages constantly. It's a very active, non-passive driving experience. I live in a city and don't drive often (I've fueled up once since December), so I prefer driving to be engaging.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's unlikely he chills until someone dies or property in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars is damaged, and an attorney pursues him personally. A hacker ethos is no defense against a personal judgement you can never repay in a lifetime. Unlike most judgments, punitive damages awards are not dischargeable in bankruptcy as long as the relevant cause of action was based upon willful actions. The audience won't…
No Tesla programmers have been arrested for Autopilot-related crashes.
Tesla makes it extremely clear to its users what the shared responsibility model is for Autopilot features (through warning messages at each Autopilot engagement and in the user's manual for all Tesla vehicles), and has general counsel on staff to reinforce this through legal actions indemnifying their staff. Openpilot is a drastically different model. It is a software breadboard for your own vehicle.
For example, this is laughable (from the repo):
(Top) > openpilot is an open source driving agent. Currently, it performs the functions of Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) for selected Honda, Toyota, Acura, Lexus, Chevrolet, Hyundai, Kia. It's about on par with Tesla Autopilot and GM Super Cruise, and better than all other manufacturers.
(Bottom) > THIS IS ALPHA QUALITY SOFTWARE FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#9This is stupid. All the demos are on public roads. George Hortz needs to chill before he ends up in jail.
One side of me agrees, the other thinks of the Wright brothers. Oh wait, they got someone killed.
Re: Openpilot – open-source self-driving agent
#10One side of me thinks this is really, really cool. The other side is running away as fast as possible. If anything shouldn't be developed by committee, it's something that controls a few thousand pounds hurtling down the highway at 70MPH with at best an observant human watching over it. Here's my reasoning: Mistakes in Django? Bad things happen. Mistakes in the Linux kernel? Potentially really bad things happen. Mist…
Of course it's extremely cool. I wish this existed when I was in uni and we built self driving prototypes. I also remember how often we messed up completely and would have killed our self if it weren't for us driving at 10 km/h on closed off air strips. The thing is how this project explicitly tells people to use it is way over the line. "THIS IS ALPHA QUALITY SOFTWARE FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES ONLY. THIS IS NOT A PRODUC…
This would have been great for the DARPA team back in grad school. But yes, even back then our DARPA crew limited car speed to 10mph during a lot of the initial work, and it was either out in the old football field or the campus police would let us tape off the parking lot in the engineering building on weekends.
Even as far as the open source tech has come, videos fulling explaining how to use this in production on real roads is pretty irresponsible; especially since there are no warnings in the videos and no claims of liability.