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They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

nytimes.com

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Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#61

Post by 0x445442 »

chomp wrote: post #11
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #5

I know I'll catch flak for this, but where did this idea that "anyone can learn to code" come from? Coding requires a certain drive and curiosity, without delving into the capability side. What makes anyone think that they can take a bunch of people who never or barely passed highschool and have been working in a mine for a decade+ and teach them this? By all means subsidize a laptop and point them at some great onli…

To adapt a quote from one of my favorite movies: "Not everyone can become a great coder; but a great coder can come from anywhere ." That's what (in my opinion) you should take away from "everybody can code." I think it's obvious that not every single person in the world has the external characteristics to be a great software developer. But those with passion and curiosity will be able to make a great career for them…

The best Pixar movie IMHO.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#62

Post by erentz »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #50
erentz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of them do. This one seems like an outright scam, but for example well known boot camps like Lamba School put you through some tutorials and tests before hand. When you look at these tutorials it really seems to be a filter for “can you teach yourself coding”. IMO making the bootcamps fairly useless given the huge amount of online courseware and free tutorials available now.

I guess if lamda school has a consistent track record in the industry & companies are hiring from them, i could see that being of value to someone switching careers. (Employers seem to be inept in interviewing for programming positions - and otherwise - On their own)

Yes, I tell people thinking about a boot camp to first try really damn hard to teach themselves first, then if they still want to, to just use something like Lambda School as interview preparation and to “credential” yourself.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#63

Post by sudosteph »

jen20 wrote: post #53
mothsonasloth wrote: post #45

[Warning Exremely Controversial Post Ahead] I am currently working for a big corporate in the UK, who have been showing off their "pioneering" and "visionary" strategy to focus recruitment from code boot-camps. All I can say is that as a senior developer, it has made my life misery. I've gone from writing code and producing features, to a full-time mentor and babysitter. Half of the boot-camp graduates I believe have…

> developers have an easy life, getting into work whenever they choose Why exactly is that the wrong reason?

I know people with 4 year CS degrees from reputable schools who picked tech jobs for the same reason. I think wanting a job that allows you the means and time to enjoy other parts of life is perfectly valid. Being incompetent at said job is where the problems come from.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#64

Post by yowlingcat »

voidhorse wrote: post #51
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #5

I know I'll catch flak for this, but where did this idea that "anyone can learn to code" come from? Coding requires a certain drive and curiosity, without delving into the capability side. What makes anyone think that they can take a bunch of people who never or barely passed highschool and have been working in a mine for a decade+ and teach them this? By all means subsidize a laptop and point them at some great onli…

I disagree. I think with the right levels of exposure at the early stages of education “coding” can become a proficiency just as common as reading, writing, and arithmetic. Of course, just like those skills, people will pursue programming to varying depths, some will determine to study advanced topics while others will remain “coders at the 6th grade level”. Not everyone will go into CS and develop new data structure…

In America anyways, coding "could" become a proficiency in the same way that business analysis "could" theoretically become a proficiency, but that is so thoroughly at odds with the American education system that I don't think it would happen unless there was a fundamental structural reformation of the entire system from the top down -- culturally, legally and probably generationally.

As someone else in the thread said " Anyone can learn to cook. This shouldn't be equated to everyone being equipped to become a chef de cuisine." The fact that anyone can learn to cook only magnifies the detectable skill differential between a professional and an amateur, and I see no reason to see anything but the same pattern emerge with software construction.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#65

Post by mothsonasloth »

jen20 wrote: post #53
mothsonasloth wrote: post #45

[Warning Exremely Controversial Post Ahead] I am currently working for a big corporate in the UK, who have been showing off their "pioneering" and "visionary" strategy to focus recruitment from code boot-camps. All I can say is that as a senior developer, it has made my life misery. I've gone from writing code and producing features, to a full-time mentor and babysitter. Half of the boot-camp graduates I believe have…

> developers have an easy life, getting into work whenever they choose Why exactly is that the wrong reason?

Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being serious.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#66

Post by peter303 »

In the mid 20th century coding was seen as a trade school skill. Perhaps boot camps are another version of this.

When I attended MIT in the 1970s there was no pure computer science major even though competitor schools had such. The faculty said it was a skill most of the students picked up in high school. In 1980 MIT made computer science a co-major with electrical engineering. And finally last year an independent school.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#67

Post by asveikau »

jen20 wrote: post #42
asveikau wrote: post #35

> When word spread of a trip by the Mined Minds leadership to a tech conference in Lithuania in November, she saw an opportunity. I am partly of Lithuanian descent. With respect, I don't understand why someone in the US would think to attend a tech conference in Lithuania, when there is a much larger tech industry closer to home.

Have you looked at the line ups of Build Stuff in Vilnius? It has many of the same speakers as QCon, historically at a fraction of the price, and attendees from across Western Europe and the US. I have priced it out several years running, and with flights from major US cities or (especially) Europe, a hotel and expenses it is substantially cheaper than attending a US conference in the same tier. Disclaimer: I have wo…

Interesting, thanks.

I could certainly see it as less of a stretch for people elsewhere in Europe especially.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#68

Post by School-Cotton »

vsskanth wrote: post #46
erentz wrote: post #20

The “anyone can code” and “just learn to code” phenomena needs to die in a fire. This reminds me of many other scams in our education system, it’s disgusting how much money is being leeched out of people on private “schools”. This “anyone can code” idea is actually an easy thing to test if we were serious and honest about it. But we are not. And I believe boot camps give a false sense that more people are successful…

As a counter-point, I would like to point out India's IT industry. When the IT outsourcing industry was booming and there was a serious programmer shortage, outsourcing firms such as Infosys, Cognizant, Tata would hire college graduates en-masse regardless of major (like, entire batch of 20XX would get a job offer). They would then spend 6 months actually training them and weeding out poor performers. The ones who ge…

Graduates from a decent college is already a huge filter. “Weeding out poor performers” is another one.

So no, this isn’t evidence that “anyone can code”. It’s evidence that “most smart people can code”, a completely different statement.

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#69

Post by fma »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #45

[Warning Exremely Controversial Post Ahead] I am currently working for a big corporate in the UK, who have been showing off their "pioneering" and "visionary" strategy to focus recruitment from code boot-camps. All I can say is that as a senior developer, it has made my life misery. I've gone from writing code and producing features, to a full-time mentor and babysitter. Half of the boot-camp graduates I believe have…

To a lesser extent, the same can be said for those who get an "IT" degree from a no name school from the college of business. I've spent a lot of my time training people who graduate from local small colleges instead of say, Georgia Tech or UGA (I'm in Atlanta) because management at my big corp is throwing cheap bodies at the solution.

Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed mentoring but done kids graduate with no clue and the wrong expectations.

I've mentioned to management these kids don't graduate with the proper foundation... And I'm told it's my job to give it to them....sure, I'd love to if they give me their college tuition!

Re: They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia

#70

Post by [deleted] »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #45

[Warning Exremely Controversial Post Ahead] I am currently working for a big corporate in the UK, who have been showing off their "pioneering" and "visionary" strategy to focus recruitment from code boot-camps. All I can say is that as a senior developer, it has made my life misery. I've gone from writing code and producing features, to a full-time mentor and babysitter. Half of the boot-camp graduates I believe have…

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