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What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

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Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#151

Post by askafriend »

bsder wrote: post #125
throwaway713 wrote: post #105

Reading articles like this always makes me wonder where all this crazy drama is going on. I work at one of FAANG, and I go in each day, code/analyze things from 8-5, chat with some people about their cycling or cooking hobbies, then go home. If people are having affairs and flying to resorts, then I'm just totally oblivious to it. Either that, or I'm the most boring 28 year old that works there.

> Either that, or I'm the most boring 28 year old that works there. You are, presumably, male and doing technical tasks. It's much easier to get into drama when you are a 1) young female, whom lots of people want to interact with, hired to do 2) marketing, where your job is to be extremely social with semi-strangers. This is simply the way of the world.

Excellent point and well made.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#152

Post by tracer4201 »

throwaway_9168 wrote: post #146
tracer4201 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s worked at multiple big tech companies, I don’t think this was true, at least not on the teams I worked on. I probably averaged 50 hour weeks. I also earned enough to max out retirement accounts and make substantial investments in my post-tax accounts. I had enough to where I could start taking bigger risks. I had two vacations per year while building wealth. I also got married during this time. I rea…

>> if it’s just resentment. Ah, there it comes. Having been around lots of employees of one of the tech giants, I think the cult mentality is actually very strong. You can observe this in two specific ways: 1 Adding in a gratuitous note at every possible chance about those who are resentful because they didn't "make the cut". Now, you could have made your point without the gratuitous note, and the fact that you still…

You’re resorting to personal attacks with accusations of cult mentality. I’ve generally worked with people who were good to me or people I came to trust. Obviously I must be part of a cult for not hating the teams I worked with. Are you miserable at your current job? If not, does that make you part of a cult? And if you are miserable, with all the rage you’re holding up, maybe you need to take a break and worry less about us?

>Adding in a gratuitous note at every possible chance about those who are resentful because they didn't "make the cut".

I never made any statement about someone being resentful because they didn’t make the cut. You’re arguing a straw man with these things you’ve conjured up, and after making this statement, it’s probably likely you didn’t make the cut. On the other hand, making the “cut” isn’t so black and white. Great candidates sometimes fall through and don’t get an offer. The system isn’t perfect at any company.

>Interestingly, you observe this attitude in a lot of ways when you interact with them in real life too, and especially when you say something critical but factual about their software (e.g. that it is bug ridden despite an entire army of folks working on it)

There’s buggy software everywhere. Hopefully you can find bugs and address them before your users do but be transparent if something is serious. I haven’t seen anyone state that engineers at big tech companies write flawless code, so you’re arguing another straw man.

>If someone disagrees, "it's just resentment". Even more tellingly, almost none of these folks actually take a stand on clearly unethical practices well after "earning enough to max out retirement accounts".

People take stands on issues they disagree with all the time. You read about it when folks at Google, Microsoft, or Amazon speak out against selling tech to the defense department. It’s even on there news.

>Instead of bristling at such comments, you should probably introspect a little more

Your angry rant is misinformed, with personal insults and generally in bad faith. Do you have an employer and are they perfect? Even if you’re self employed, are the folks you work with or work for completely 100% objectively ethical, and if yes, how do you measure that and who/what defines that bar?

I never stated tech companies are above the law, that engineers at these companies write bug free software, or that everyone else is only upset they didn’t make the cut. If I had to guess, it sounds like maybe you didn’t make the cut, which is why this idea even came to your mind.

My experiences have been good. It seems like you came here hoping I would have insulted my previous teams.

One piece of unsolicited advice -

You won’t be successful and people generally won’t respect you or want to work with you if you’re the person who tries to pull the most negatively possible interpretation from others so you can use it to put others down. It doesn’t matter how smart you are or think you are.

Good luck!

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#153

Post by dantondwa »

jldugger wrote: post #22
ljiljana wrote: post #15

> A few guys working both for Microsoft and Partners were treating me like a cute puppy or telling me they wanted to have sex with me while drunk, but all of it seemed minor and acceptable — I was getting so much in return. jesus, how is this minor and acceptable? i'm a woman in engineering and I can not even imagine having to deal with something like this. Is it that Marketing is that much different? Or am I just lu…

> jesus, how is this minor and acceptable? I suspect working in an Eastern Europe satellite office far more regressive than your typical US west coast office. Not that it makes it either minor or acceptable, just... different.

This is my (anecdotal) experience. I work in Poland and I have seen multiple cases of behavior in the workplace that I would have never considered to be acceptable. Here, most often, they're done in public just shrugged upon. And really, being a southern European, it is not that before coming here I was used to the highest standards of gender equality. I just have the impression sexism and cases of sexual harassment at the work place are much more common here.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#155

Post by Gibbon1 »

paulddraper wrote: post #58
devinmcafee wrote: post #11

I think many young people in tech learn this lesson the hard way. They get excited with all the free food, laundry services, and events that tech jobs offer. They end up spending all of their waking hours at work and work becomes an identity. Then one day something changes and they realize they spent the last N years of their life at work, not building real lasting relationships, pursuing hobbies, dating, etc. It tru…

Perhaps overly impersonal, but I think of it as an investment profile: you need diversity. Invest in your education, invest in your career, invest in your family, invest in your friends, invest in your hobbies, invest in your health. Not all of those are sure to succeed, but if one fails or you realize is overvalued, you've still got a lot left.

I have two comments.

You want you career path to follow; what you can learn, what you can do, what you know, who you know.

Every job should pay you in, experience, money and connections. If a employer is short changing you or blocking you on any of those, LEAVE.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#156

Post by carmate383 »

bsder wrote: post #125
throwaway713 wrote: post #105

Reading articles like this always makes me wonder where all this crazy drama is going on. I work at one of FAANG, and I go in each day, code/analyze things from 8-5, chat with some people about their cycling or cooking hobbies, then go home. If people are having affairs and flying to resorts, then I'm just totally oblivious to it. Either that, or I'm the most boring 28 year old that works there.

> Either that, or I'm the most boring 28 year old that works there. You are, presumably, male and doing technical tasks. It's much easier to get into drama when you are a 1) young female, whom lots of people want to interact with, hired to do 2) marketing, where your job is to be extremely social with semi-strangers. This is simply the way of the world.

Want more attention at a tech company? Simply slice off your penis and call yourself a lady.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#157

Post by hamburglar »

_0nac wrote: post #142
hamburglar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me it's a story about someone who's too impressed with a lot of superficial stuff. The appearance of a "perfect life", business travel, expensive hotels, uber rides (?), overpriced seattle apartments with a great view that you can't actually afford, etc. The irony is that these things are all rather unimpressive to those that actually have them within reach, so citing them as evidence of your lavish lifestyl…

It's all relative. I spent six years at university without ever taking a single taxi and I still consider Uber rides a luxury, because I can also take the bus for a quarter of the price or bike for free. Also, as the OP mentions, the trap of getting used to nice things is that while you soon stop appreciating them, you will feel their loss quite painfully.

There's a huge difference between a luxury and something that indicates you have achieved a lavish and impressive lifestyle. A cup of coffee at starbucks is a luxury.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#158

Post by Gibbon1 »

skybrian wrote: post #138
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say that meaning their fiduciary responsibility is to their shareholders. Their other stakeholders are by nature secondary. I'll have to check that video out but unless the shareholders themselves vote to prioritize employees and others above profit, the company and, more directly, upper management risks lawsuits and loosing their own lucrative positions.

Not a lawyer but it seems like in practice, the fiduciary responsibility thing seems like more of an ideology that some people buy into than a legal constraint? Management can choose to do all sorts of crazy things and argue that it's in the company's best interest. (But also read Matt Levine on how everything bad is also securities fraud.) The thing that really aligns employee incentives with shareholders is restric…

It's not an ideology it's an excuse for board members and CEO to do what they want without being called on it. Namely loot the company.

The guys in the mahogany suite say look the only people we are responsible to are the stockholders. Who most of them it turns out have very little coherent control. That's very convenient.

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#159

Post by panpanna »

carmate383 wrote: post #154

This has nothing to do with Microsoft, and instead reads like a blog entry of a narcissistic, selfish young lady. Good riddance.

I think the crazy infighting along Microsoft teams is fairly well known at this point.

Do you know of any recently successful teams that were not built up from entirely new people isolated and protected from the old teams?

Re: What I gained, lost and learned while working for Microsoft

#160

Post by jpatokal »

hamburglar wrote: post #157
_0nac wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all relative. I spent six years at university without ever taking a single taxi and I still consider Uber rides a luxury, because I can also take the bus for a quarter of the price or bike for free. Also, as the OP mentions, the trap of getting used to nice things is that while you soon stop appreciating them, you will feel their loss quite painfully.

There's a huge difference between a luxury and something that indicates you have achieved a lavish and impressive lifestyle. A cup of coffee at starbucks is a luxury.

Lavish and impressive is also relative. Your original statement about "these things are all rather unimpressive to those that actually have them within reach" is tautological: having a yacht with a helipad is not going to be particularly impressive to anyone else docked next to me in St Tropez, even if it puts all of us in the global 0.01%.
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