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Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

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Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#151

Post by bduerst »

colordrops wrote: post #24
mattkevan wrote: post #5

After switching to DDG few years ago, I used google search again for the first time in a while was surprised How bad their search has become. Not because it’s not good, it’s still better than DDG at certain things, but because the results have been crowded out by so much junk. There were so many ads, snippets, did you also means, and AMP widgets that there was only room for about eight actual search results. How have…

I tried DDG in the past for privacy reasons but struggled due to poor results. Recently I switched to DDG because of poor results on Google. On certain controversial subjects, Google seems to how filtered out many results for political or advertiser pressure reasons. Even on non political results, the wrong sorts of sites seems to be pushed to the top.

That is because DDG is not a real search engine, since they do not index the web (at least by the 2019 meaning of the word). Unless you are search in Russian, DDG is basically Bing search results.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#152

Post by bduerst »

jimmaswell wrote: post #127
lioeters wrote: post #19

As much as I'm often dismayed by the negativity on HN (or, let's say, brutal honesty: "this product is shit!") - harsh reactions are definitely warranted for cases like this anti-competitive behavior. Let's keep raising the stink, I hope the powers that be are paying attention. (Long-time DDG and Firefox user, doing my best to de-Google myself and my loved ones)

Does Google make its own content which gets preferentially treated based on AMP, or why is this anticompetitive?

It's not anticompetitive. It's a web standard that anyone can roll on their own domain (like amp.reddit.com), or host on a certified CDN (like Cloudflare) to get the icon in search results. Bing, Yandex, etc. can add icons or carousels in their results too if they wanted to.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#153

Post by anfilt »

HALtheWise wrote: post #141
superasn wrote: post #71

Why doesn't Google treat all websites that load under 100ms at par with an AMP site? They keep using the ruse that AMP is important because it is all about fast loading sites and less frustrating user experience but they have page speed insights, and already rank sites based on load speed so why force this non standard on everyone? If they just said we'll give you a bolt icon and the perks for a site that loads under…

Basically, because it isn't actually possible to make a website that loads in under 100ms on poor connections any other way. For reference, on the fast university wifi I am currently connected to, news.ycombinator.com loads in 499ms. When I switch to my phone's hotspot, that rises to 2.38 seconds, and on a simulated slow 3G network, that rises to 6.51 seconds. I haven't tested a 2G connection in India, but wouldn't b…

Caches disabled... The browser caches things for a reason. I understand disabling caches to measure the network performance. However, that does entirely give a clear picture. If your wanting things you have already visited to load instantly it's hard to beat the browsers own caches.

The first thing that effects page time is network latency and there is no getting around that. AMP may help because google has lots of servers that may be closer, but if the underlying network is slow. AMP will still be slow.

Also the next thing is frame size. If the network path has high latency, but the ability push large frames you can send more per request. This is where things like inlining can help. It also reduces the request number.

AMP can't get rid the properties of the network. It's also generally the last mile that is slow not back bone.

-edit- I find it interesting that the github link provided mentions portals are for "AMP Carousel like UI with navigation to publisher (alternative to iframe promotion)"

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#154

Post by bduerst »

malchow wrote: post #52
memo_ree wrote: post #39

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

What about the fact that it was originally called Page Speed Project and was a genuinely open standard; that that was subsequently shut down in favor of AMP? That the difference between the two is that Page Speed did not have attractive collusive lock-in effects while AMP does have collusive lock-in effects?

What are AMPs collusive lock-in effects?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#155

Post by bduerst »

dfabulich wrote: post #115
MrStonedOne wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a mobile user, I fucking hate it. I hate that every fucking google search result on mobile web has its stupid little icon I hate that there is no way for me to disable it as a user I hate that it has muddied the waters in what the url bar means I hate that it has trained users to not question fake url bars. I hate that cloudflare so thoroughly jumped on its dick I hate that we invented a way to fake the address in…

> AMP is not fast because it's served from google's CDN. That's a lie, It has always been a lie, and it will always be a lie. AMP is fast because it's incompatible with 99% of the bullshit client cpu heavy tracking and ad libraries, so they don't get included inside AMP pages. AMP is fast because of prefetching. That's not a "lie." You can measure this. When you click an AMP link, the page is already downloaded. Pref…

Link prefetching and rendering isn't unique to AMP - it was even added by W3C to be part of the HTML5 standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_prefetching#Prefetching_i...

Even Internet Explorer will prefetch and render pages.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#157

Post by joshuamorton »

lwansbrough wrote: post #90
izacus wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's akin to large governments swooping in and regulating industries when they start hurting people en masse. Web developers weren't professional enough to make the web fast. AMP isn't the right solution, but the community itself was incapable of policing itself so it was just a question of time before it happened. Before that, people were massively moving to the apps because the web got too slow and unusable on…

Who elected Google to act on our behalf? Free market takes care of slow sites. Either they’re too slow to use or they’re not.

And they did. Google, a member of the free market, found that slow sites were negatively impacting them. So it took action.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#158

Post by bduerst »

hw wrote: post #70
memo_ree wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMP is fast because it's incompatible with 99% of the bullshit client cpu heavy tracking and ad libraries, so they don't get included inside AMP pages. > We could have just had that, without all this stupid bullshit CDN redirection/misdirection bullshit. I agree the world could have faster pages without AMP. What would that take though? Would it take web developers across the world pushing back against including me…

Isn't that up to the developers themselves - whether they want to shoot themselves in the foot by slowing down their site by including lots of JS? Who is Google to determine how the Internet should be run? Shoving AMP down people's throat - because Google can as it owns majority browser and search market share - is akin to large governments in the world pushing their weight around and sticking their noses in other co…

Except we've seen that it's not up to the developers, but some product manager or marketer who is willing to sacrifice the mobile experience for email popups, autoplaying ad videos with sound, loading 50MB of unoptimized content, and other value-sucking tragedy of the commons behavior.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#160

Post by edoceo »

dk- wrote: post #103
pembrook wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might've been true in the past when the internet was still young and there wasn't as much data around to monopolize. Look at the history of the auto industry to see how the development of a new tech industry plays out long term. To be overly reductive, thousands of companies got distilled to GM + Ford (like Google + Facebook). Data is the most valuable commodity today. The mountain of data and network effects Go…

food for thought: there used to be 30-40 american car makers, now there are 3.

3 big ones. Tesla and like a dozen smaller ones.
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