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Books and lectures don't work

andymatuschak.org

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Re: Books and lectures don't work

#71

Post by perfunctory »

"In this section we’ve seen that, like lectures, non-fiction books don’t work because they lack a functioning cognitive model. Instead, like lectures, they’re (accidentally, invisibly) built on a faulty idea about how people learn: transmissionism. When books do work, it’s generally for readers who deploy skillful metacognition to engage effectively with the book’s ideas. This kind of metacognition is unavailable to many readers and taxing for the rest. "

Well, maybe taxing your brain is exactly the point. It's like training your muscles - no pain no gain. It actually reminds me of an Asimov's story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(novella)

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#73

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

scardine wrote: post #34
lefstathiou wrote: post #5

I used to believe this too until I was taught how to read a book, a skill that unfortunately is taken for granted and hasn’t made its way into curriculums. Reading “thinking fast thinking slow” should not take 8-9 hours... it could easily take 50 (after all, it represents many years and thousands of hours of work by the preeminent thinker on the subject). Scholars have spent a lifetime studying the Inferno. I am typi…

If I'm interested in the subject nothing breaks my hyperfocus (this is both my superpower and my kryptonite). Well, conversations around me or music with lyrics do disturb my reading but classic music or pos-rock are a very effective way to cancel environmental noise.

> but classic music or pos-rock are a very effective way to cancel environmental noise.

That might not be the case if you are an obsessive classical music listener. Personally, as a fan of the Baroque played on period instruments etc. (the "historically-informed performance" style), the muzak versions of Bach played in public places really grind my gears.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#74

Post by crimsonalucard »

molteanu wrote: post #60

I think you might be reading books wrong if that's what you're hoping to take out of them, that is, remember this or that specific quote out of it. For me, at least, the value of a book is changing your way of thinking, or better yet, present new questions that you did not even dare to ask. I would recommend Darwin's own Origin of Species instead of Dawkins' Selfish Gene. I've read both. They can't even begin to comp…

Why would reading be better at conveying this info then video

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#75

Post by Jaxan »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #74
molteanu wrote: post #60

I think you might be reading books wrong if that's what you're hoping to take out of them, that is, remember this or that specific quote out of it. For me, at least, the value of a book is changing your way of thinking, or better yet, present new questions that you did not even dare to ask. I would recommend Darwin's own Origin of Species instead of Dawkins' Selfish Gene. I've read both. They can't even begin to comp…

Why would reading be better at conveying this info then video

Because you spend more time on it? My reading is definitely slower than youtube videos. And still a bit slower than most lectures.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#76

Post by davidgerard »

Writing a book is like writing a thesis. I decided I was going to write a book - it ended up being nine months, 55,000 words and 400+ footnotes. Every sentence was rewritten multiple times. And this was designed to be a breezy, accessible read - something you could read on your phone over the course of a day.

I write a blog as well. Writing a post takes three to five hours, to come up with a good linkable article. I've got this down, I think.

Today I tried uplifting a blog post to material for the next book. 1,500 words ... five hours, to bring the material up to date and up to book quality.

I like and respect books a whole lot more now.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#77

Post by LeonB »

kartan wrote: post #2

> How might we make books actually work reliably? The read is interesting, and it has an interesting premise. But, it is one well known. Techniques like SQ3R ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQ3R ) have existed for decades. Books are a great source of knowledge. But, you need to use the right techniques to read them. If you read for fun, then don't bother. Whatever sticks is better than nothing. If you read to memoriz…

I read on kobo, and wish for better tools for note taking and recording questions, etc.

Should be the perfect tool for deep reading and techniques like SQ3R... but it sure ain’t.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#78

Post by LeonB »

mjw1007 wrote: post #6

A number of times as a teenager I read several books on a subject and found that the first few were badly written and difficult to understand, while the last one set everything out very plainly and I felt if only I'd read that one first I needn't have wasted my time with the others. Only, once when I was half-way through that last one I realised that I was re-reading the first one I'd picked up. So I think books can…

I listen to audiobooks on non-fiction and find that relistening brings out much more depth in the ideas (and my comprehension of them)

My new plan is to read a summary of the book’s ideas first, perhaps read the summary twice. Then see if this increases the initial immersion.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#79

Post by molteanu »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #74
molteanu wrote: post #60

I think you might be reading books wrong if that's what you're hoping to take out of them, that is, remember this or that specific quote out of it. For me, at least, the value of a book is changing your way of thinking, or better yet, present new questions that you did not even dare to ask. I would recommend Darwin's own Origin of Species instead of Dawkins' Selfish Gene. I've read both. They can't even begin to comp…

Why would reading be better at conveying this info then video

There's less clutter and interference in the written word. It's just a dialogue between two people. One of them talks from his life experiences, like a grandpa, the other one listens, ask questions, wonders, like a little kid who doesn't know anything about life.

What does a video add to this dialogue? Only clutter, in my opinion. If it's a word for word reading of the original, then that definitely adds some value, but then you'd call that audio and not video. So I assume by video you mean moving images, and sound and tone and interpretation and change of pace and interruptions and "I'm waiting to be inspired moments" from you and "Here's a video with dramatic music on top of it. Are you amazed?" from the video producer. Adding splash doesn't mean the producer knows what he's talking about. Often times it's just a way of hiding the lack of understanding.

For a comparison, a good website doesn't need anything besides black text on a white background. A website that doesn't have anything to say will have to compensate with flashy tricks and will make you unaware of the fact that it has nothing of value to deliver.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#80

Post by jhallenworld »

Books and lectures let you know about something. Doing the homework or a project where you get to reference a book, or an expert when you get stuck really teaches you.

On fiction, I've found that listening to an audiobook gives a different experience. It's weird, you pick up different things.

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