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Books and lectures don't work

andymatuschak.org

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Re: Books and lectures don't work

#51

Post by chpmrc »

tw1010 wrote: post #30

Try only learning things with books for 4 months and then tell me it doesn't work. I tend to notice that learning from books get a lot harder if I allow my brain to be flooded with whatever chemicals are released when I watch youtube or game of thrones. If I avoid those for a while, and avoid sugar etc, and if I work out every day and get enough nutrients etc, then my ability to learn via books is no trouble at all.…

Do you feel like this is ultimately related to the medium or to the content as well? Intuitively new media won't have as much (good quality) content as books, so that might be the main issue here.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#53

Post by tranchms »

Disagree. Reading is not the same thing is learning, or self-education.

When I read to learn, I take notes, I highlight, I reflect and write my thoughts on the subject.

Reading is a highly effective way to learn and absorb information, if you engage with the text, and make it an active experience, rather than a passive experience.

Reading isn’t about memorizing a few sentences. It’s about understanding a subject, the contents within, and being able to apply to various contexts you encounter throughout your life.

Whenever I encounter a problem or challenge in my personal or professional life, I can immediately recall and reference the knowledge or wisdom I’ve gained from books.

And if I can’t, I find the book I’m missing, and actively read it to assimilate a new understanding.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#54

Post by perfunctory »

chpmrc wrote: post #51
tw1010 wrote: post #30

Try only learning things with books for 4 months and then tell me it doesn't work. I tend to notice that learning from books get a lot harder if I allow my brain to be flooded with whatever chemicals are released when I watch youtube or game of thrones. If I avoid those for a while, and avoid sugar etc, and if I work out every day and get enough nutrients etc, then my ability to learn via books is no trouble at all.…

Do you feel like this is ultimately related to the medium or to the content as well? Intuitively new media won't have as much (good quality) content as books, so that might be the main issue here.

I feel like it's appropriate to mention this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_medium_is_the_message

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#55

Post by commandlinefan »

nerdponx wrote: post #4

.....huh? I admit I skimmed this article. I did so because it is long, and because the initial premise doesn't make much sense. I was looking for something specific. For some discussion of reading and notetaking strategies. Underlining, highlighting, etc. I saw none. Therefore, I can only repeat the tired old form of dismissal: "it didn't work for you because you did it wrong". You want to actually absorb and learn s…

Yeah... if he read Guns, Germs and Steel in 9 hours, I’m not surprised he didn’t retain much of it.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#56

Post by vannucci »

adamnemecek wrote: post #14

For both the main problem is that there comes a point where you lose track of what's happening. I think that the main problem with lectures is that each feels very simple during the intro and very complicated towards the end. Generally there's some steps that you just missed. It's hard to pause the lecture and go back. Each additional minute of being lost then feels like a waste of time. The audience is generally at…

This is an excellent example of what the author wrote as "taxing but skillful metacognition" and it's great! You hit the nail on the head that it's really easy to lose track of what's happening and where you are.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#57

Post by tw1010 »

chpmrc wrote: post #51
tw1010 wrote: post #30

Try only learning things with books for 4 months and then tell me it doesn't work. I tend to notice that learning from books get a lot harder if I allow my brain to be flooded with whatever chemicals are released when I watch youtube or game of thrones. If I avoid those for a while, and avoid sugar etc, and if I work out every day and get enough nutrients etc, then my ability to learn via books is no trouble at all.…

Do you feel like this is ultimately related to the medium or to the content as well? Intuitively new media won't have as much (good quality) content as books, so that might be the main issue here.

Quality schmality. Many books I read do little more than just enumerate facts (e.g. history books, especially the dry ones). The reason I remember the facts I read in books and don't remember a lot of the random bits of knowledge I've seen on "history of ancient rome" twitter accounts, or whatever, is because I set aside large blocks of undistracted time to read, where I allow myself to imagine the scenarios described (without feeling pressure to get back to work, nor have some "hey I wonder what casey neistat is doing"-type voice distracting me from really absorbing what I'm reading) and think a lot about how what I'm learning connects to what I've learned before.

Another kinda big reason I can find it harder to learn via the internet vs books is because there's so much deception online. You get primed to always think and try to figure out "ok, how much of this is marketing, or signalling, or the author just spewing BS, and how much is something I can rely on", which takes away cognitive resources from what otherwise could have been spent on building a rich and secure knowledge-base.

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#59

Post by chpmrc »

Well, the amount of contrasting opinions in the comments here and [1] and [2] are enough of a proof, to me, that written words and video/audio are equivalent, with the latter having the potential of being much more engaging, especially in our current "low attention span" society. I gathered arguments in favor and against books in a recent /r/changemyview [3]

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095947521...

[2] https://mitili.mit.edu/news/compared-reading-how-much-does-v...

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/beiywx/cmv_vi...

Re: Books and lectures don't work

#60

Post by molteanu »

I think you might be reading books wrong if that's what you're hoping to take out of them, that is, remember this or that specific quote out of it. For me, at least, the value of a book is changing your way of thinking, or better yet, present new questions that you did not even dare to ask.

I would recommend Darwin's own Origin of Species instead of Dawkins' Selfish Gene. I've read both. They can't even begin to compare. One is a serious scientific and a mind bending exercise in nature's ways, the other one deserves the title of pop culture. I cannot tell you the different beak sizes of Darwin's finches but I can tell you I've felt a void inside me after finishing the book and for a few years I thought constantly about the implications of the theory and saw behaviors around me that could be explained in terms of evolution, survival of the fittest and all that.

After you've read some serious books you won't ever say again that books "don't work". Schopenhauer said it better,

Students and scholars of all kinds and of every age aim, as a rule, only at information, not insight. They make it a point of honour to have information about everything, every stone, plant, battle, or experiment and about all books, collectively and individually. It never occurs to them that information is merely a means to insight, but in itself is of little or no value.

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