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Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

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Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#41

Post by stephenr »

dmitriid wrote: post #18
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #13

I for the life of me don't understand how any Google AMP engineers can bother defending this anymore. A couple weeks ago there was an AMP article related to using real, source URLs, and a bunch of engineers from Google posted in defense. This is absolutely Google trying to dictate what the web should be. If the US had functional antitrust authorities they would kill this.

> I for the life of me don't understand how any Google AMP engineers can bother defending this anymore. The narrative is “we develop an open standard that is widely adopted, and we’re not responsible for what people do with it”. The team lead, @cramforce will also tell you tgat AMP is good for tge web.

Maybe someone needs to tell @cramforce where to cram it, with force.

Or, “fuck you very much” if you aren’t much on name based commentary.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#42

Post by reaperducer »

mattkevan wrote: post #5

After switching to DDG few years ago, I used google search again for the first time in a while was surprised How bad their search has become. Not because it’s not good, it’s still better than DDG at certain things, but because the results have been crowded out by so much junk. There were so many ads, snippets, did you also means, and AMP widgets that there was only room for about eight actual search results. How have…

This is a good reminder for me to switch my default search engine to DDG again.

I try it every few months for a week or so and then switch back to Big G when I find DDG isn't right for the types of searches I need.

I look forward to the day when I forget to switch back to Google.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#43

Post by marcosdumay »

stephenr wrote: post #37
joedevon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here but I wanted to add that search is at par 100% on the main search tab. Almost identical but less ads on DDG. Not sure about the images, they seem to just be different images. Google is better at news search. That's the only place I've noticed DDG not being as good at. But DDG is FAR superior as a user experience IMO because of the bangs https://duckduckgo.com/bang

My only issue with DDG (which doesn’t stop me using it) is if you turn off safe search (eg to prevent false positive blocks for something you want to find) holy shit does a lot of porn show up - for completely non-sexual terms. I’m a big boy, I’m not offended by most of it (the frequency of bizarre Simpson’s porn is a little weird) but it’s somewhat weird the way it appears. I searched for “power Mac case door”, all…

Do you find false positives after turning the filter off?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#44

Post by ohashi »

memo_ree wrote: post #39

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

Based on your comment history it sounds like you work at Google. Does that put blinders on your opinion?

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#45

Post by Zarath »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #13

I for the life of me don't understand how any Google AMP engineers can bother defending this anymore. A couple weeks ago there was an AMP article related to using real, source URLs, and a bunch of engineers from Google posted in defense. This is absolutely Google trying to dictate what the web should be. If the US had functional antitrust authorities they would kill this.

When you're working day to day you tend to lose sight of the bigger picture and only focus on the problem you're trying to solve and either let your managers mostly decide what problems you will solve, or just work to get "features" implemented for promotional reasons.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#46

Post by marcosdumay »

ivanbakel wrote: post #25
jostmey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that people will stop using google if it can’t help them find useful information. Google’s leadership seems to not understand or not care about how the internet works

I think it's highly naive to suggest that Google's leadership is operating in complete ignorance of their own product. This is the company of analytics - whatever approach is being taken is probably backed by a gargantuan amount of data. That doesn't mean it's good for the web, but "what (the most) users want" is Google's strong point. And this is par for the "the internet is now 4 websites" course, so I don't think…

If they are operating on top of a mountain of data, then they have a problem (what honestly would be good, even too good to believe).

People are not the memoryless automata that statistics handles best. People react positively to a bad change up to a point where they don't anymore, you don't even need to keep changing to trigger this.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#47

Post by stephenr »

marcosdumay wrote: post #43
stephenr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only issue with DDG (which doesn’t stop me using it) is if you turn off safe search (eg to prevent false positive blocks for something you want to find) holy shit does a lot of porn show up - for completely non-sexual terms. I’m a big boy, I’m not offended by most of it (the frequency of bizarre Simpson’s porn is a little weird) but it’s somewhat weird the way it appears. I searched for “power Mac case door”, all…

Do you find false positives after turning the filter off?

In the example search the first two “pages” of image results (with the adult filter off) have no actual matches for what I wanted - two contain laptops I think.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#48

Post by blackbrokkoli »

memo_ree wrote: post #39

Seriously, I just don't get these hateful comments on Hacker News regarding AMP. It helps websites load fast on mobile, and users really appreciate when websites load fast.

Sure, you're not wrong.

"This webpage works best in Our Browser™️" was just a pointer to the user for a faster experience. It came at the small cost of crippling the web for a mere 15 years, probably costing a few billion hours user time wasted at horrible UX bred in a hostile corporate controlled environment.

AMP is just the same all over again, just with a singular player which might just be too big to fail. Oh, and also this time things like the information source of the western world is at stake, not only fan sites of specific locomotive models by some geeks.

But at least my websites load....slower actually if the page was properly built[1]!

[1]https://digiday.com/media/google-amp-beat-facebook-instant-a...

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#49

Post by marcosdumay »

mromanuk wrote: post #15
jostmey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that people will stop using google if it can’t help them find useful information. Google’s leadership seems to not understand or not care about how the internet works

It depends. Most people, only want the answer to the “question” they typed. And if that is answered in a widget, cloaking the original content, they don’t care. That’s what google realized.

So, Google better get the right answer every time. Because when they were only pointing to a larger knowledge base, people understood that they should search a bit for their answer, but if they show it on a Google frame, it better be correct.

Funny thing is that I moved to DDG because Google couldn't reliably guess my answers, and I am satisfied with an engine that tries to guess to a much larger extent. This is because DDG guesses are better, and they don't hide the web results so I can fall back to them.

Re: Google Creates 'Dedicated Placement' in Search Results for AMP Stories

#50

Post by dmitriid »

stephenr wrote: post #41
dmitriid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I for the life of me don't understand how any Google AMP engineers can bother defending this anymore. The narrative is “we develop an open standard that is widely adopted, and we’re not responsible for what people do with it”. The team lead, @cramforce will also tell you tgat AMP is good for tge web.

Maybe someone needs to tell @cramforce where to cram it, with force. Or, “fuck you very much” if you aren’t much on name based commentary.

He’ll just block you, and carry on.
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