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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#471

Post by spjt »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #274
btilly wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET is tied to Microsoft, so I'd avoid it 100% of the time. Yes, yes. I know that Microsoft theoretically open sourced and ported it. However the way that this always works is that there is a base that can be written in, but anything non-trivial will have pulled in something that, surprise surprise, is Windows only. Otherwise I agree that it is a better Java.

I don’t think is true anymore. The .net 5 announcement was very clear that .net core is the future and its been a while since you’ve had needed things that are windows only to build a non-trivial .net core application.

Looking at the announcement it seems they're basically folding all of the Windows-specific stuff back into .net core. Isn't that just going back to a compatibility minefield?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#472

Post by ric2b »

tus87 wrote: post #276
CountHackulus wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not calling your code 5000x then it's likely not important for performance. I worked in compilers for 5 years and people's intuition for what parts of the code are the bottleneck is generally not very good. This includes me, I've guessed wrong a WHOLE lot. If you're running microbenchmarks and having issues, then you're likely not using JMH, the Java Microbenchmark Harness which used to be a 3rd party libra…

> If you're just writing a small routing server, probably not the right use case for Java. General purpose languages have "use-cases"?

Yes, I wouldn't use Haskell for scripting and I wouldn't use javascript for a 3D game engine.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#473

Post by contravariant »

qaq wrote: post #446
dcole2929 wrote: post #49

In the majority of companies it's simply not possible to operate on the bleeding edge the way HN articles would have you believe you should. Besides the obvious issues around the value of rewriting stable legacy systems on new platforms, there are also man power issues. You need tier 1 developers to live on the bleeding edge because any problem that comes up (and they will come up) largely requires you to solve it yo…

Are we reading same HN? It seams majority of people advocate fairly sane proven choices for majority of projects e.g. start with the monolith default to PostgreSQL for dbms etc.

There's a pretty big difference between what the people on HN would have you believe and what the articles on HN would have you believe.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#474

Post by namelosw »

lenkite wrote: post #194
bsaul wrote: post #92

Fun story : i had to develop the same system for two different companies, one a startup with 3 employees (the founders) , the other a billion dollar business. Just a backend api & web interface, together with an iOS app displaying the content. I could use shiny new tech for the startup (which at the time was python on app engine and its nosql datastore, with a backbone.js framework), whereas the other one forced me t…

The start-up code written in modern Java would similarly taken two months to develop and maintainable by an intern. The problem in enterprise tech like you found is that one is forced to use certain, non-productive old frameworks filled with legacy, over-engineered bloat. Modern Java micro-services in contrast are really fast to develop. Green field Java projects where one can make personal choices of lean technology…

Sure, modern Java micro-services could be fast. Compared to legacy Java micro-services to years ago.

It's still not comparable with Rails. Let alone some niche bleeding edge technologies which are focused on productivity.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#475

Post by [deleted] »

whatshisface wrote: post #395
geofft wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems I don't think that's true—there is a subset of the best and brightest who work on greenfield projects very decoupled from existing customer bases, and they get to blog / present / post a lot about what they're doing. There are quite a few "best and brightest" people who are in large companies or slow-moving industries. They're ofte…

If they're really the best, wouldn't they have their pick of workplaces and optimize for personal enjoyment? Nobody who could chew through research level algorithm problems all day would willingly write Java 8 CRUD apps for Windows Server 2000, because those are the people that have a choice.

[deleted]

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#476

Post by tomohawk »

gerbilly wrote: post #268
tomohawk wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a lot of power to push something that large. A lot of brain power to grock the ecosystem. Outside of the Java bubble, the view is quite a bit different. All that sophistication looks like a wasted effort. Take something as simple as admining the garbage collector. Java has a big selection of GCs, and each has their bunch of knobs for tuning. And you have to pay attention to that stuff. After working with Go…

> Java has a big selection of GCs, and each has their bunch of knobs for tuning. And you have to pay attention to that stuff. You never have to touch them in the Java world either, unless you like making performance worse that is. I've never ever seen a case where fiddling with garbage collection parameters didn't make things slower. I worked with a guy who worked on a popular java compiler, and he says the same thin…

What sort of scale are you working at? At our scale, it is normal to look into these sorts of things. Reading and understanding and applying articles like the following is absolutely necessary.

http://clojure-goes-fast.com/blog/shenandoah-in-production/

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#478

Post by pron »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #470
pron wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Yes. 2. Configurable. A fiber is assigned to a scheduler that is, at least currently, and Executor (so you can implement your own). > I take it from the following snippets that fibers can only run on the thread where they were created No. A fiber has no special relationship to the thread (or fiber) that created it, although now there can be a supervision hierarchy thanks to structured concurrency: https://wiki.ope…

Very neat. So it preserves the virtues of .Net's task-based concurrency, but is even less intrusive regarding the necessary code-changes to existing synchronous code. Does it impact things from the perspective of the JNI programmer? > OpenJDK is the name of the Java implementation developed by Oracle (Oracle JDK is a build of OpenJDK under a commercial license). Ah, of course. I'd missed that. > there are non-Oracle-…

> but is even less intrusive regarding the necessary code-changes to existing synchronous code.

Yes. All existing blocking IO code will become automatically fiber-blocking rather than kernel-thread-blocking, except where there are OS issues (file IO; Go has the same problem). Fibers and threads may end up using the same API, as they're just two implementations of the same abstraction.

> Does it impact things from the perspective of the JNI programmer?

Fibers can freely call native code, either with JNI or with the upcoming Project Panama, which is set to replace it, but a fiber that tries to block inside a native call, i.e., when there is a native frame on the fiber's stack, will be "pinned" and block the underlying kernel thread.

> How do they handle copyright?

Both the contributors and Oracle own the copyright (i.e. both can do whatever they want with the code). This is common in large, company-run open source projects.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#479

Post by heelix »

jum4 wrote: post #185

I have seen some Excel files from end users which grows into a whole application. The users wanted more functionalty and didn't get through all the management levels to reach someone from corporate IT and just start doing it by themselve with the tools they know and develop from Excel to Macros to VBA to VBA with SQL Database (because they have a standard process in the company to request a new SQL Database and the d…

My wife use to work at a credit card company. Someone in their group had taken the Microsoft Access 'Northwinds' sample database, changed the labels, and reworked the processes to more or less fit the SQL/tables that existed. No understanding, beyond behavior, of what was underneath at all. There was much 'you got to be kidding' when the corporate mandated all database applications would be migrated to Oracle.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#480

Post by syjer »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #312
pron wrote: post #85

The funny thing is that from a purely technological point of view, Java (even the 5-year-old Java 8 and certainly recent versions) is far ahead of most other stuff hyped on HN (as well as less hyped stuff). Virtually no other platform comes close to that combination of state-of-the-art optimizing compilers, state-of-the-art GCs, and low-overhead in-production profiling/monitoring/management. And much of the cutting-e…

I had cause to use a bit of Java recently, so I could wrap an existing library that did exactly the thing I wanted. I haven't used it since university—back in the 1.4 days—and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Performance was great, concurrency was easy, features like type inference and streams made the experience much more pleasant, and obviously the development tools are still first-rate. The absence of a packag…

>The absence of a package manager like Bundler or Cargo was frustrating

why you did not use maven or gradle?

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