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Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

fastcompany.com

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Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#81

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

I didn’t down vote you, but you really misunderstand old people. As I mentioned in another comment, my 97 year old Dad (almost 98!) uses computers and he has taught himself 3D animation, has started to write scripts, makes little movies blending real video and video with CGI added, and helps make biography documentaries for his friends’ families. He also goes out three or four nights a week to dinner, plays, movies, the local MIT club entrepreneur talks, etc., etc. Most of my Dad’s friends are similar: physically frail, but still have curiosity and zest for life.

Also, there should be no stigma for growing old. We all grow old and eventually die. Very natural thing. What we can do is to enjoy every day and be kind and loving to other people, looking more for what you can do for them than what you can get out of them.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#82
post #69

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

> old people are daft and impatient I hope you learn a little more empathy before your parents really need your help. I know old people with vastly more sense and patience than you're displaying, but who nevertheless struggle with many of the issues discussed.

I'm 33 and probably thought similar to the original thought at some point in my life. I've only grown sympathetic after seeing the transformation of my dad as he gets older. Without having to make sense of how a profoundly patient and caring man could slowly morph into a slightly short tempered form of himself, I would have never tried to rectify it.

I think the original comment actually unintentionally hit the core of it. The younger poster exalted imdomitability. A lot of people grow up enjoying and expect themselves to be technically, personally, and professionally indomitible. Any regression on those fronts is understandably infuriating.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#83
As usual, design is mostly universal. Besides issues of strength, there's actually not much here which is specific to age. These are design issues for all.

> Loud restaurants are torture. So, more and more, my wife and I select restaurants by their noise level rather than by their food quality. At home while watching TV, whether shows, streaming events, or movies, we always turn on the captions, which often block critical parts of the image. Even worse, when a film shows someone speaking in a foreign language, the film often translates the words, but so too does the closed captioning, and the two are placed on top of one another, making both attempts to help the viewer completely unhelpful.

I'm (only) in my 30's and every one of these applies to me and my friends, as well.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#84

I'm 51 and work in tech. I now understand the nuances in this article. I'll probably understand them better as time goes on. Young readers probably skimmed over the bits about floaters in the eyes. Everyone older than 50 gets it. Young readers probably skimmed over the bit about frequency definition, captions etc. Everyone older than 50 gets it. I don't get the bit with walking sticks yet, but I am not there yet. But…

Fully agree. There is also the 'no bullshit' attitude that starts to emerge when you turn 40. You want product to do a thing. Not to engage you in any way. You either already have a life or you know you will never have one. Many older people have money and they are willing to spend it if does a thing and it's easy to get. If Amazon would buy Paul Graham's old Viaweb code, it would need just little updating to become…

I was thinking the other day what a good TUI would like on the web (without throwing out baby with the bathwater).

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#85
> Even worse, when a film shows someone speaking in a foreign language, the film often translates the words, but so too does the closed captioning, and the two are placed on top of one another, making both attempts to help the viewer completely unhelpful.

This drives me nuts. Especially when the closed captioning blocks the film's translation with something completely unhelpful like (speaking foreign language) Why even bother putting that in there?

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#86
post #9

I characterize this as "all PMs have perfect eyes and skin". The first iteration of the Microsoft Surface featured a micro SD slot that was unusable if you had anything less than perfect, pliable finger nails. I cracked a nail so many times using that slot I gave up. Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts.

>Apple designers clearly have amazing vision

Apple can be bad for this. Unfortunately the spindly little grey fonts floating in a sea of white or grey seems to be part of a broader design fashion at the moment. (Of course, I don't rule out that Apple played a role in kicking off this fashion.)

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#88
post #33

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

> Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window Is this so? I used to work at a Dunkin Donuts, and the POS / register was entirely touchscreen, and I and everyone else developed muscle memory.

How much did those buttons move after every software update?

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, back in the day when BetterDiscord was a thing we'd be making CSS and some JS to change font sizes, change the color of icons for colorblindness IIRC, things like that. Discord's staff continually acted in bad faith about it, to the point of spreading outright lies about the program being malware. Was a big post going around all the public discords, few ever just popped into the betterdiscord server to simply se…

See also Slack C&D-ing an extension doing UX fixes in the browser: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17869249 I really dislike SaaS vendors who are being control freaks. My browser, my rules. That was always the fundamental design of the Web.

All Slack wanted was to C&D was trademark infringement.

> UPDATE Sept 14th 2018: After talks with folks from Slack and a rename… Refined (fka Taut) (fka BetterSlack) is now live back

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#90
post #83

As usual, design is mostly universal. Besides issues of strength, there's actually not much here which is specific to age. These are design issues for all. > Loud restaurants are torture. So, more and more, my wife and I select restaurants by their noise level rather than by their food quality. At home while watching TV, whether shows, streaming events, or movies, we always turn on the captions, which often block cri…

Loud restaurants do that intentionally to scare off old unsexy people and to make customers leave sooner for faster turnaround.

Netflix does captioning very well.

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