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Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

fastcompany.com

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Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#61

Post by altitudinous »

I'm 51 and work in tech. I now understand the nuances in this article. I'll probably understand them better as time goes on.

Young readers probably skimmed over the bits about floaters in the eyes. Everyone older than 50 gets it.

Young readers probably skimmed over the bit about frequency definition, captions etc. Everyone older than 50 gets it.

I don't get the bit with walking sticks yet, but I am not there yet. But I realise that.

I was young and bulletproof once - even up until 5 years ago I didn't understand what this article was about. I gather by reading the comments here that most don't. The challenge is explaining ageing to anyone under the age of about 45, when it is entirely out of their scope of experience, in a demographic who think they know it all. Ageism is embedded in our society, whose best attempt at inclusion and diversity is based on colour of skin and gender. I don't think it will change, it has probably been the same for thousands of years.

I had to go around to a friend of my mothers the other day - in her 70's, her younger relatives had switched off captions on her Samsung TV. She had no idea how to turn them back on. It is hidden about four layers deep in the fu.king menus. Why isn't it a button an on/off button on the remote? Another button amongst the 20 already there? In the manual - It got a paragraph mention about 30 pages in, in a tiny font. So discriminatory. I am seriously thinking of making a career of this, while I still can!!!

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#62

Post by ummonk »

tty2300 wrote: post #54
TeMPOraL wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to capacitive touch panels on appliances. You'd think this sci-fi look is more expensive to make, but it's actually cheaper. The "buttons" have no moving parts.

And should last longer, make it easier to clean and not get gunk stuck in it causing it to jam up.

It's possible to have a sealed membrane over a set of physical buttons.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#63

Post by goldenkey »

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#65

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

I’m 33, my car had a touch screen display and the Bluetooth sync function is 3 clicks deep. If I were to start driving right away, it becomes a huge hassle to try to sync to Bluetooth. Doesn’t help that you can access the first 2 screens but the 3rd is locked since I’m driving. It’s as if some engineer somewhere thought the 3rd screen is more distracting than the first 2. I always imagine how easy it would be to have a physical button I can just click any time. Ahh the days of modern design... gotta love it.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#66

Post by maxerickson »

marnett wrote: post #43
EricE wrote: post #33

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

Unfortunately I think it’s more about pricing as oppposed to better design paradigms. Replacing embedded system engineers with cheap java engineers? Yea that requires a screen.

It's about the parts and assembly, not the engineering time. A couple million dollars of upfront cost is roughly irrelevant to the sticker price of a vehicle.

For a low volume car like the Model 3, $3 million is already down to ~$12...

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#67

Post by altitudinous »

goldenkey wrote: post #63

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

I rest my case. You should be asking yourself why, do you see you don't understand their behaviour? Why do they behave differently in menus to you, don't condemn them because they do behave differently to you.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#68

Post by llamathrowaway »

goldenkey wrote: post #63

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

If you’re ‘nearly 30’ then it’s likely you grow up with modern gadgets, and since you are on HN there is a higher chance that you have a stronger than average interest in electronics. Your parents did not grow up like you. They grew up in a time when a few knobs is all you need to operate a home appliance. And they are probably more interested in what’s being played on TV, rather than the TV itself.

The complexity of today’s electronics and softwares is getting out of control. If you have to actively explore all menus in order to use something normally, then I suspect the UI is poorly designed. But there is no incentive for their designers to improve, unless they acknowledge that their perception of electronics is very different from the average users.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#69

Post by jfk13 »

goldenkey wrote: post #63

Isn't it moreso that old people are daft and impatient? I am nearly 30 and can figure out systems, both new and old, and find that patience and faith is vitally important. I notice my parents don't even bother to explore the menus or dropdowns or well..much of anything, before they demand to be helped. It's gonna be very hard to sell me on menus being ageist. I hope you can read my frustration..

> old people are daft and impatient

I hope you learn a little more empathy before your parents really need your help. I know old people with vastly more sense and patience than you're displaying, but who nevertheless struggle with many of the issues discussed.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#70

Post by dictum »

Causality1 wrote: post #49

For some reason companies hate text now. Instead of a menu, you get icons with as minimalistic a design and as little difference between them as possible. Entering your user name and password is two separate pages for some reason now. Window borders have disappeared so instead of knowing at a glance where you can click and drag you have to closely watch your mouse pointer change. A big "Hewwo 2 U!" screen is added be…

I don't mean to defend the trend of using undecipherable icons with no text labels, but this is an example of how requirements can clash: internationalization.

Sometimes the text label that would fit in English is too long when properly translated to another language.

(Icons are problem too: they can be meaningless to an user. However, they have the benefit of a somewhat constrained size, unlike words and phrases.)

I personally prefer interfaces that scroll, like web pages, to interfaces with a fixed or partially fixed frame, like mobile apps. A fixed frame works when you can fit it in full in your screen; this was easier on a low-resolution but large display than on a very high resolution 4-6 inch display.

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