Don Norman on how design fails older consumers • Hacker News Board

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#31

Post by ssivark » Sat, May 11, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #15

areoform wrote: post #10

Thoughtless design is everywhere. My company uses Discord for comms and I’m active in several Discord communities, but my vision impaired co-worker isn’t. Not because of a lack of want, but because Discord has been coasting on accessible design for years. https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/4tn00z/when_wil... Everything takes more resources than we expect, but surely a theme for their client (we do have some…

The dismal accessibility adoption on the web is horrendous, but working for a company that has to deliver accessible web apps to comply with Federal law has really opened my eyes to how terrible to ecosystem of accessibility is. My team spends about a quarter of our time working strictly on accessibility, and we find ourselves straying from the beaten path often in order to accommodate a specific screenreader/OS comb…

Since website frameworks like Bootstrap are a thing, would it make sense to implement accessibility guidelines at that level, so that designers/people who don't know are encouraged to use sane defaults?

Or is it too content/layout specific?

Eg: I might like to roll my own static blog, but I don't know how to ensure that it is accessible.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#32

Post by m463 » Sat, May 11, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #16

RyJones wrote: post #9

I characterize this as "all PMs have perfect eyes and skin". The first iteration of the Microsoft Surface featured a micro SD slot that was unusable if you had anything less than perfect, pliable finger nails. I cracked a nail so many times using that slot I gave up. Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts.

> Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts Tip: take a photo and view it in the photo app on your phone or desktop. It is often much easier to read then. If it is not, it can often be made so by playing with the editing options. This also often works with things like power bricks that sometimes have the specs "printed" in raised plastic w…

I set triple-click on my iphone to magnifier.

Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Magnifier -> On

Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Accessibility Shortcut -> Magnifier

(of course those settings are somewhat inaccessi... well you know...)

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#33

Post by EricE » Sat, May 11, 2019, 4:51 AM UTC

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design.

Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#34

Post by EricE » Sat, May 11, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

m463 wrote: post #32

tzs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts Tip: take a photo and view it in the photo app on your phone or desktop. It is often much easier to read then. If it is not, it can often be made so by playing with the editing options. This also often works with things like power bricks that sometimes have the specs "printed" in raised plastic w…

I set triple-click on my iphone to magnifier. Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Magnifier -> On Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Accessibility Shortcut -> Magnifier (of course those settings are somewhat inaccessi... well you know...)

This - should be a card in the box on top of the iPhone explaining magnifier. So incredibly useful!

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#35

Post by gnicholas » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

m463 wrote: post #32

tzs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts Tip: take a photo and view it in the photo app on your phone or desktop. It is often much easier to read then. If it is not, it can often be made so by playing with the editing options. This also often works with things like power bricks that sometimes have the specs "printed" in raised plastic w…

I set triple-click on my iphone to magnifier. Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Magnifier -> On Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Accessibility Shortcut -> Magnifier (of course those settings are somewhat inaccessi... well you know...)

Another similar trick: you can use the zoom feature to dim the screen below the normal threshold. Set the zoom level to zero and then set the zoom filter to low light. I use this as my triple click, and it's great for reading in absolute dark without ruining your night vision.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#36

Post by synaesthesisx » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

EricE wrote: post #33

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

Think of it this way - imagine using an iPad/tablet while driving.

Now imagine your grandfather using an iPad, while also driving.

Unfortunately accessibility & haptics have been pushed to the backburner.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#37

Post by ngold » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:23 AM UTC

synaesthesisx wrote: post #36

EricE wrote: post #33

The trend towards lack of physical controls in cars is absolutely bonkers. I'm gobsmacked anyone thinks the Tesla Model 3 is good design. Same with desk phones. Anyone who deals with customers at a counter doesn't have time to constantly look at a touch screen for buttons that may or may not be there. Nothing like chucking muscle memory out the window in the name of aesthetics :p

Think of it this way - imagine using an iPad/tablet while driving. Now imagine your grandfather using an iPad, while also driving. Unfortunately accessibility & haptics have been pushed to the backburner.

Now imagine your grandfather trying to change the radio station on a touchscreen display while driving.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#38

Post by HlessClaudesman » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:31 AM UTC

The article makes some good points about not talking down to older people, but here's the thing the article misses: aspiration. Advertisers test all sorts of messaging before they roll out a large campaign, if empowered old people sold units we would already see more of them in ads. Advertising is largely playing on the target audiences emotions, selling them an idealized form of themselves if only they brought X product.

Old people dont aspire to be old. They are, for the most part, quite happy to buy products fronted by younger people who remind them of their younger selves. So the missing grey dollar goldrush this article bemones is largely already being served, and its worth considering that most ads must simultaneously reach multiple demographics, would you aspire to drink old lady coke?

Advertisers are not stupid.

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#39

Post by SyneRyder » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #38

The article makes some good points about not talking down to older people, but here's the thing the article misses: aspiration. Advertisers test all sorts of messaging before they roll out a large campaign, if empowered old people sold units we would already see more of them in ads. Advertising is largely playing on the target audiences emotions, selling them an idealized form of themselves if only they brought X pro…

The Coke ads currently in Australia (and apparently from the UK) feature an elderly man trying a Coke No Sugar for the first time, who then goes on to ask "What else haven't I tried?" and tick off a bucket list while Queen's "I Want To Break Free" plays in the background. There's absolutely ways to do it if you want to.

https://youtu.be/O223tQkCuag

Re: Don Norman on how design fails older consumers

#40

Post by SyneRyder » Sat, May 11, 2019, 5:48 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #20

RyJones wrote: post #9

I characterize this as "all PMs have perfect eyes and skin". The first iteration of the Microsoft Surface featured a micro SD slot that was unusable if you had anything less than perfect, pliable finger nails. I cracked a nail so many times using that slot I gave up. Current generation Apple designers clearly have amazing vision: part numbers on light grey on white in microscopic fonts.

I've had a lot of trouble entering the Windows serial numbers when installing Windows. The B and 8 look alike, ditto for O and 0. I've had to use a magnifying glass on it. Apple's online documentation pages have also tended to be light grey fonts on white. My eyes would ache trying to read them. I find their choices baffling. It's like they were so focused on design they forgot about people simply wanting to read it.

1 and I / 5 and S are other ones that can be tricky. I'm surprised if Windows is still using them in serial codes - I thought that was something the shareware community had learned not to do years ago. Maybe some of this knowledge is getting lost.