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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#401

Post by wolco »

geofft wrote: post #64
mzkply wrote: post #44

The HN front page is similar to any community. For example, a car site's homepage will be listing the latest supercars, expensive turbos, rims, whatever... while most readers are driving a $30,000 Civic. The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing.

> The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems I don't think that's true—there is a subset of the best and brightest who work on greenfield projects very decoupled from existing customer bases, and they get to blog / present / post a lot about what they're doing. There are quite a few "best and brightest" people who are in large companies or slow-moving industries. They're ofte…

The best and brightest are working on greatest problems and are not focused on using the newest tools in many cases they are using substandard tools because they are focused on the problem.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#402

Post by wolco »

jum4 wrote: post #185

I have seen some Excel files from end users which grows into a whole application. The users wanted more functionalty and didn't get through all the management levels to reach someone from corporate IT and just start doing it by themselve with the tools they know and develop from Excel to Macros to VBA to VBA with SQL Database (because they have a standard process in the company to request a new SQL Database and the d…

If it reaches that point it becomes an enterprise project with a budget and resources/time. If you try to kill every excel sheet in the wild you take on those projects without the resources to support them.

Any earlier commenter said Enterprise values process over outcome. It is true at the macro level but at the micro level bosses need to make decisions or your new work will receive no credit from above and will be used against you when it fails.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#403

Post by noblethrasher »

sporkland wrote: post #348
pron wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .NET has both of them I'll give you value types, but reified generics in .NET were a mistake. It really makes interop and code sharing among languages hard, in exchange for a rather slight added convenience. This means that if you're a language implementor and you're targeting .NET, you'll get much less from the platform than you would if you target Java, which makes .NET not a very appealing common language runtim…

Dumb question. Why do reified generics make interop challenging? Or is it reified generics plus value types that don't inherit system.Object? Couldn't the language implementations basically pass around ICollection in .NET somewhat similar to how they do in Java?

.NET Value types do inherit from System.Object.

See: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.valuetype...

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#404

Post by cozos »

pron wrote: post #281
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual language & core libraries are incredibly slow to react to anything. async/await being the obvious example. Still no sign of it in the Java language, nor any expectation of it, unless I missed something.

https://wiki.openjdk.java.net/display/loom/ which is superior to async/await, if I may say so myself (I'm the project lead)

I find this really interesting. Care to provide some comparisons?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#405

Post by microcolonel »

pron wrote: post #238
microcolonel wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an incredibly bad result with many shitty implications that are currently mostly being ignored but could lead to legal nuclear war at any time. I mean, it has been big news, and it has already been nuclear war, with Oracle putting Google in a position to switch android from Dalvik (and successors) to OpenJDK. I agree that it could become a pretty horrible precedent (imagine if Microsoft forbade Sun from implem…

> imagine if Microsoft forbade Sun from implementing Excel functions in StarOffice, or for that matter, if MS were prevented from producing Excel in the first place The things you're talking about are already protected by patents, and the copyrightability of APIs have nothing to do with them. At the very least, for something to be copyrightable it must be some specific fixed expression (a piece of text, image, video…

It's literally no different. Excell has APIs just like Java, it's just the code goes in cells rather than on lines.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#406

Post by noisy_boy »

willbw wrote: post #337
js2 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use TextMate (!) to maintain an Android SDK that's a mix of Java, C and C++ avoiding Android Studio like the plague, to maintain an iOS SDK that's mostly Objective-C, similarly avoiding Xcode's editor, and to maintain the backend written in Python that these SDK's talk to. I've got enough going on in my head w/o having to deal with the complexity of two different IDEs. Anyway, for me Java-the-language is fine. The…

I've not done any Android development but how is IntelliJ for it? While it can be slow on big codebases and obviously never as responsive as vim in a terminal, I think the tooling is excellent. But again, you have to spend a month or so learning the shortcuts.

IntelliJ has an excellent vim keybinding plugin which I use (having come from Linux/scripting/Vim background to Java). Intellij also makes setting shortcuts pretty easy so you can customize to your needs. Having used both Eclipse and IntelliJ, I prefer the latter.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#407

Post by philwelch »

outworlder wrote: post #176

> And what Hacker News was teaching me was that the entire IT industry was working on brand-new Macbooks, using Go and Rust, Docker and CI, to build amazing products. The problem is, some companies are using Go and Rust, K8s, Docker in brand new Macbooks. They are not the majority, but they are there. You may care about these things, or you may not. But if you do, working on a "normal" company is infuriating. I had t…

The converse problem is that some companies end up building or rebuilding everything the most resume-driven way possible and then run headfirst into tooling and frameworks that are either unnecessary to their actual requirements, not mature enough, or was just a dumb fad all along. The actual developers get to put stuff on their resumes and leave for a new company after two years and their replacements end up wanting to rewrite their "legacy codebase" in the newest fashions, and the cycle continues. I don't know what the solution is, other than just exercising good technical judgment.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#408

Post by noisy_boy »

inertiatic wrote: post #15

It's a bit disturbing how much people in this industry are focused on tooling. It's a biproduct IMO of working on boring problems or supporting morally ambiguous corps. That thing that you need to keep yourself busy and keep going in the rat race.

Not sure what specifics you mean by tooling but in the context of build/deploying tooling, I really enjoyed learning about it. Beyong the knowledge to be able to develop at both front/backend, setting up the CI/CD pipeline and seeing it all work seamlessly, is useful. Understanding it end-to-end is quite satisfying too.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#409

Post by ewngzen »

bsaul wrote: post #92

Fun story : i had to develop the same system for two different companies, one a startup with 3 employees (the founders) , the other a billion dollar business. Just a backend api & web interface, together with an iOS app displaying the content. I could use shiny new tech for the startup (which at the time was python on app engine and its nosql datastore, with a backbone.js framework), whereas the other one forced me t…

GAE went through a lot of changes after coming out, I remember the days spend on catching up its changes, so I wouldn't say it costs nothing to run 2 successive years. Even worse, after around 3 or 4 years they completely cancelled the node I am on notifying me to deal with my datae myself within limited amounte of time. Bleeding age my ass

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#410

Post by tstrimple »

stevetodd wrote: post #266
acomjean wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like java. Java 8 streams are particularly interesting. Its fast too. I took a hadoop class (which taught java 8 and ironically discouraged hadoop use excepting exceptional cases..). The hardest part that everyone struggled with was getting a Java environment up and running. Gradle, maven, ant... You almost need and IDE. Its almost like they don't want people using it. I stopped when I didn't have too. Plus the acr…

It’s funny, I feel the same way about web development right now.

Except web development is almost all bootstrapped from a simple npm library these days. You generally npm install and you've got all your dependencies whether it's Angular, Vue, React or pretty much any modern web frameworks. The time for a new developer to get the tooling out of the way and start looking at code is dramatically shorter for web apps than Java in my experience.
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