Live data from Hacker News

Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

economist.com

221–230 of 257 posts

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define unfair. How can we objectively determine what would be a fair wage for that work?

If I hire a guy to paint my house for $100, and the paint costs $105, but the painter paid for it already, that’s objectively unfair.

How does this help me in this different context? What's the litmus test that we can apply across opportunities to earn a wage?

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#222
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, Uber keeps 22 cents on each dollar paid by passengers, as its fee for creating the app, keeping it working, etc. That's cheap relative to the iTunes store, which keeps 30%. It's preposterous compared to the 3% that real-estate agents get for buying or selling a home. We really don't know what the "fair" rate is for running a ride-hailing business. We know what's been collected to date in a venture-funded d…

Autonomous cars and owning their fleet or leasing from large fleet companies is probably the end goal for increasing the share. I don't see this going any other way. These have always been a play on getting market share at a loss while the tech is being built and converting to a profitable position when there are no contractors to pay.

I don't understand this autonomy angle for several reasons. One is of course that legally (and technically) full autonomy is a long, long time away so we'll still have drivers in cars that want to be paid, but more importantly, Uber doesn't even own autonomous cars.

Are they really, in addition to all their other costs, going to stock up on millions of expensive autonomous vehicles? That's unrealistic. And if they don't, what stops for example peer-to-peer solutions to emerge that let's people rent out their cars directly? It's very possible we don't need a middleman here when autonomy is ready.

I'm usually sceptical of all the decentralised, smart-contract stuff, but renting your car to some agreed upon destination or for some time through a open-source free application sounds actually doable.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define unfair. How can we objectively determine what would be a fair wage for that work?

If I hire a guy to paint my house for $100, and the paint costs $105, but the painter paid for it already, that’s objectively unfair.

Why would the painter accept a job where they lose money?

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't actually work that way in reality. If it did, there would already be another massive Uber undercutting Uber in eg the US market and raising $10+ billion in VC money to do it. Because hey, a $75 billion valuation is sitting right there, so it's really easy: just put $10 or $20 billion into the company, undercut Uber, IPO, easy return. Everbody can do it, just add $20 billion. What's actually the case, is th…

The company that delivers fully autonomous vehicles would have no trouble securing funding to not have to operate within Uber's walled garden and give Uber a 22% cut of profits, and make their own app. Remember, when the independent contractors go away, you don't need offices in every city to onboard drivers, you don't need a big legal team to fight the ongoing "are they contractors or employees" debate, etc. In othe…

Someone is going to have to put up the money to buy the fleet of autonomous vehicles.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#225
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody can make a sweet, carbonated beverage, but when Coca-Cola is faced with an ambitious and successful upstart, Coke can run at a loss to drive them out of business, or Coke can acquire them, or Coke can copy them and beat them at their own game. Uber can do all the same things to smaller competitors in it's domain. Uber's big competitors, on the global front, aren't really competitors. Uber, Grab and Didi all o…

Have you ever been to a supermarket? The market for carbonated beverages is massive with lots of competitors and tons of new entrants, as well as competitive pricing and low margins. Much like, I am arguing, the market for taxi hailing will continue to be.

The soda aisle in my grocery store has about 30 feet of shelf space for Coke and Pepsi, 10 feet for it's own no-name brand, and another 10 feet for the craft hipster pop.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define unfair. How can we objectively determine what would be a fair wage for that work?

If I hire a guy to paint my house for $100, and the paint costs $105, but the painter paid for it already, that’s objectively unfair.

If the painter bought a bunch of "vomit green" paint and it turns out no one wants it, offering $100 to get your house painted is a perfectly fair deal since the other option for the painter is to not sell it at all, which costs the full $105 as a writeoff.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#227
They should charge a service fee to the rider, for however much they need to be profitable; and let the drivers charge whatever they want (baseline auction). Now the customer knows how much they are paying to whom.

Imho, Taking a cut of earnings is borderline unethical for a automated services, whether its lyft, upwork, or patreon. Charge a fee, know your numbers, give both sides of your service's users confidence in the service's stability.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#228

Fundamentals question: Can somebody explain how these ridesharing companies expect to turn a profit, eventually? If you lose 50 cents on every ride, how do you make it up in volume? Every ride is subsidized by the Sand Hill Road crowd. They're a great deal. I took a 40-min ride yesterday for US$12.50 in a high-cost-of-living traffic-clogged city. How can that make sense? A ride in a sketchy 1970s-era New York City gy…

>If you lose 50 cents on every ride, how do you make it up in volume?

They "lose 50 cents" per ride at the current volume but their fixed costs only go up slightly for each ride, so at double the volume, they could be turning a profit instead of a loss.

The number isn't really related to their actual marginal cost of providing the service.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#229

Fundamentals question: Can somebody explain how these ridesharing companies expect to turn a profit, eventually? If you lose 50 cents on every ride, how do you make it up in volume? Every ride is subsidized by the Sand Hill Road crowd. They're a great deal. I took a 40-min ride yesterday for US$12.50 in a high-cost-of-living traffic-clogged city. How can that make sense? A ride in a sketchy 1970s-era New York City gy…

>If you lose 50 cents on every ride, how do you make it up in volume? They "lose 50 cents" per ride at the current volume but their fixed costs only go up slightly for each ride, so at double the volume, they could be turning a profit instead of a loss. The number isn't really related to their actual marginal cost of providing the service.

The loss comes from variable costs, not fixed costs.

Early on, they hoped to become monopolies and raise prices, reaching profitability.

Re: Lyft’s revenues double, losses quintuple and prospects darken

#230
post #143
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re forgetting the cost to develop the software itself. It’s like saying a gigabyte of data on a wireless carrier cost them pennies in electricity and bandwidth.

>You’re forgetting the cost to develop the software itself No, I'm (correctly) excluding it from the list of things they have to pay for to provide one more ride. >It’s like saying a gigabyte of data on a wireless carrier cost them pennies in electricity and bandwidth. It's more like: Verizon is unprofitable. People keep repeating the claim that, "lol, Verizon mobile actually loses money for every byte of data they t…

I understand how "cost to provide one more ride works", I'm just saying that it's a bit of an accounting fiction and has little to do with whether they can or cannot be profitable. It also confuses people into thinking that running a telecom is just pure profit and that they're getting ripped off. That's why I used that example.
Post reply on HN