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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

cnet.com

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#311

Post by darkpuma »

sachdevap wrote: post #251
daveFNbuck wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tenant who isn't able to operate a smartphone may also be unable to remember and/or physically enter a numeric code.

This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad? As for remembering the code, keeping a piece of paper with the code is no different from keeping a key. To clarify my position, I am not in favor of the app for privacy reasons, and prefer the physical lock and key. But it isn't clear to me how far the dexterity argument goes.

> "This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad?"

That doesn't seem too implausible to me. If you thrust your key at the lock but miss... you scratch the lock maybe. Not a big deal, you can retry. But if you thrust your finger at the keypad, you might miss and hit the wrong key. Okay, so try again right? Just the same as the physical lock.

Except the key only requires you to successfully align the key and the lock once. The keypad requires you to successfully align your finger and the correct key numerous times in a row. If you mess up the second or third key press, you have to start over from the beginning.

So yes, depending on the nature of the impairment, a physical key might very well be easier to use than a keypad.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#313

Post by the_watcher »

The headline here is misleading - the tenants didn't win any rights, they reached a settlement with their landlord in which they got physical keys. "Tenants win rights" suggests there was a case with a ruling that would establish precedent, which isn't what happened here.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#314

Post by the_watcher »

btilly wrote: post #295
pjc50 wrote: post #23

The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…

My memory says that in NY, the landlord cannot enter or authorize someone else to enter without 24 hours notice to the tenant. This is not widely known, and virtually every rental contract says otherwise. But those terms are unenforceable. For the record, I learned this from a lawyer living in New York as an example of why many landlords choose not to rent to lawyers. It turns out that while discriminating on the bas…

That's the case in nearly every state. Leases generally say "reasonable notice", which lets landlords imply that there is no 24 hour requirement while simultaneously keeping the term technically "enforceable".

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#315

Post by pkaye »

hugi wrote: post #186
criley2 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI for Americans, it is generally illegal to change your locks and not provide the owner (or agent aka landlord) with a copy. It's their property, not yours, and depending on state/lease they have the right to have the locks drilled/replaced at YOUR expense because you are not allowed to lock an owner out of their property. There are only a few US states which have laws permitting tenants from changing locks and not…

In Iceland, if the owner of a rented apartment would request key access to his tenants apartment, well… That would be considered "batshit crazy". But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian.

Iceland is small enough in population that the communities are small and everyone knows each other or has a mutual friend.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#316

Post by [deleted] »

sachdevap wrote: post #251
daveFNbuck wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tenant who isn't able to operate a smartphone may also be unable to remember and/or physically enter a numeric code.

This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad? As for remembering the code, keeping a piece of paper with the code is no different from keeping a key. To clarify my position, I am not in favor of the app for privacy reasons, and prefer the physical lock and key. But it isn't clear to me how far the dexterity argument goes.

[deleted]

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#317

Post by randyrand »

tracer4201 wrote: post #273

I’m in Bellevue, WA. My building uses smart locks. Instead of a cell phone, you have a small fob, a little larger than a quarter that you hold against the lock on the door to unlock it. The door is always locked. On one hand, it’s nice the door is always locked and I don’t need to worry about it. More practically speaking, if you go out the door without the dog, you’re SOL. What I really dislike is they can easily tr…

I went from that to a normal key. I much prefer the normal key. I don't ever forget to lock my door, and once or twice I accidentally locked myself out with the old system.

Also, I can make copies of my key if I like which I couldn't with the old system.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#318

Post by chrisco255 »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #293
xamuel wrote: post #246

From Philip K. Dick's "Ubik" (1969): The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when y…

I should put this kind of tech on my office door. If I want to leave, I have to feed it a dollar. An amazing savings plan or just motivation to keep working instead of going to veg out on the couch.

Or if someone wants to interrupt you, 25 cents for admission.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#319

Post by tom_ »

lovich wrote: post #233
sailfast wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian. That has nothing to do with the property owner but "America" based on my read, but I do appreciate this interpretation of the OP. If that's their meaning, I could see why the word comes up.

You know, I think my interpretation was wrong after re-reading, but I dont think I would disagree still. America has a very strong cultural thread of authoritarianism. You see it in places like a cops word being given greater weight in court than a citizens, or how people treat rights as something the government has to give you rather than the government taking rights from you

Policepeople are citizens.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#320

Post by _cs2017_ »

The smart lock had a keypad that could be used to open it with a code. And to clarify, it was a smart lock into the building, not into individual apartments.

How is this possibly a privacy concern?

Also, the tenants didn't win a right to anything; they settled the case without going to trial.

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