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IT Runs on Java 8

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Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#121

Post by sunaurus »

nunobrito wrote: post #63
vbezhenar wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very little reason not to upgrade to Java 8. Generally things just work. With Java 11 generally things just break, so it's completely another matter. I think that Java 8/11 will repeat Python 2/3 story.

We are moving to Java 8. There is a special place in my heart to hate the new shiny lambdas. Makes code too difficult for reading, nowhere compatible when needing to use Java 7 every now and then. With the article would just disagree on Sharepoint, would say Confluence has finally replaced that one.

I'm curious, do you really prefer anonymous classes over lambdas? To me, anonymous classes are much more annoying to read.

Or are you just saying that lambdas are as bad as anonymous classes?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#122

Post by syockit »

wglb wrote: post #65
Sharlin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Legacy ones" as in almost all companies. The fact is that the economy, in large part, runs on Excel.

And in addition, Visual Basic. Oh, don't forget COBOL.

The part when they said they spent a lot of money to port to C/C++ but couldn't get same efficiency/speed, that's the problem with most porting endeavours: you need people who grok both languages you're porting from and you're porting to, or at least understand the specs and business logic. That COBOL program has probably been optimised so much that the code makes no sense to people without understanding of the intricacies of that language.

My team spent a whole quarter on converting R code into Python, because we wanted to use Tensorflow for machine learning(). When they finally got the thing running, they found out it wasn't performing as fast as R. I thought, that couldn't be possible, they use pretty much the same linear algebra libraries. So I peeked into the code to see what went wrong and found out that they writing it the wrong way: (1) calculated on Pandas dataframe directly instead of extracting the values first when doing matrix calculation, (2) instead of plain ndarray, were using matrix instead, which is slower. Both of which someone without experience in Python wouldn't have known.

() On a hindsight, did it have to be Tensorflow? Besides, there's already an interface for R[1]. Maybe the team decided on Python anyway in case they want to try out the plethora of ML libraries available for that language.

[1] https://tensorflow.rstudio.com/

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#123

Post by dsfyu404ed »

_ea1k wrote: post #73
mzkply wrote: post #44

The HN front page is similar to any community. For example, a car site's homepage will be listing the latest supercars, expensive turbos, rims, whatever... while most readers are driving a $30,000 Civic. The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing.

Are we just going to ignore the idea of paying $30k for a Civic? I hope noone is doing that.

I have like $2k into a 90s Ranger. By the time I'm doing doing "enthusiast things" to it I'll probably have well over 10k into it.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#124

Post by sunaurus »

>Java 8 is still the dominant development environment, according to the JVM ecosystem report of 2018.

>If you think that’s bad...

Why would I think that's bad? The replacement for Java 8 was just recently released, does anybody really expect the world to upgrade so quickly?

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#125

Post by paulmd »

mfatica wrote: post #109
pron wrote: post #85

The funny thing is that from a purely technological point of view, Java (even the 5-year-old Java 8 and certainly recent versions) is far ahead of most other stuff hyped on HN (as well as less hyped stuff). Virtually no other platform comes close to that combination of state-of-the-art optimizing compilers, state-of-the-art GCs, and low-overhead in-production profiling/monitoring/management. And much of the cutting-e…

How does this compare to the .NET ecosystem?

C# is a better language. Java 8 started to catch up with some of the quality-of-live niceties, but Java has a lot of mistakes baked into the language and interfaces that can't be removed without potentially breaking a lot of stuff, which the consortium is not willing to do. C# and DotNet were designed with the wisdom gained from the early days of Java implementation and sidestepped a lot of these messes.

Java has a substantially better ecosystem. The tooling is just miles ahead of what exists in the DotNet world. Until very recently you developed in Visual Studio and you ran on Windows in production and that was that. They're working on Linux support and a broader ecosystem but they are probably a decade behind what is available on Java. Even stuff like package management is crude, NuGet is a joke compared to Gradle.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#126

Post by dpc_pw »

mrspeaker wrote: post #18
torbjorn wrote: post #5

IT runs on Java 8. IT in 2030 will not run on Java 8.

Are you talking about Java 8 specifically, or are you saying that for some reason there is going to be a sea-change and corporate IT is going to start using all the buzzwords and tearing down their old systems? If it's the later, and seeing how much enterprise has shifted in the last 30 years... if I were a betting fellow I'd say big systems will still be Java 8 in ten years time. Mayyyybe a freshly discovered catast…

They won't tear down anything. But there will be more and more systems that were built using newer things, some which we consider cutting edge right now. Some companies will get acquired, some will go bankrupt and their old systems deprecated, etc.

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#127

Post by debunn »

_ea1k wrote: post #73
mzkply wrote: post #44

The HN front page is similar to any community. For example, a car site's homepage will be listing the latest supercars, expensive turbos, rims, whatever... while most readers are driving a $30,000 Civic. The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing.

Are we just going to ignore the idea of paying $30k for a Civic? I hope noone is doing that.

If the poster was from Canada, $30K is actually about right for a 2019 Touring trim level (it would be even more after taxes):

https://carcostcanada.com/Canada/Prices/2019-Honda-Civic_Sed...

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#129

Post by dsfyu404ed »

testplzignore wrote: post #77
mzkply wrote: post #44

The HN front page is similar to any community. For example, a car site's homepage will be listing the latest supercars, expensive turbos, rims, whatever... while most readers are driving a $30,000 Civic. The best & brightest in tech are working with the best tools on the biggest problems, and that's what gets talked about, regardless of what the mass is doing.

$30,000 for a Civic? You better be getting gold-plated cup holders at that price.

1x $1900 Civic

1x $100 eBay turbocharger

1x $1000 misc expenses

27x $1000 JDM long-block

There's probably less fun ways to spend $30k on a Civic too

Re: IT Runs on Java 8

#130

Post by crimsonalucard »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #97
pron wrote: post #85

The funny thing is that from a purely technological point of view, Java (even the 5-year-old Java 8 and certainly recent versions) is far ahead of most other stuff hyped on HN (as well as less hyped stuff). Virtually no other platform comes close to that combination of state-of-the-art optimizing compilers, state-of-the-art GCs, and low-overhead in-production profiling/monitoring/management. And much of the cutting-e…

True, but java carries a lot of legacy.

Wow I'm getting voted down. I guess I should reverse what I said because it's obviously not true at all. Java carries zero legacy.
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