Earlier quoted context omitted.
Entirely legal in EU, btw
That's..terrifying.
I've never heard of an EU country where it would be legal to enter without ample warning time.
Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
271–280 of 367 posts
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#272Interesting that the vast majority of comments here assume the facts of the case. Nobody read the article.
It's wasn't the door to their apartments! It was a common door to the building. The case was not "won", it was settled, and there is no precedent set.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#273I’m in Bellevue, WA. My building uses smart locks. Instead of a cell phone, you have a small fob, a little larger than a quarter that you hold against the lock on the door to unlock it. The door is always locked.
On one hand, it’s nice the door is always locked and I don’t need to worry about it. More practically speaking, if you go out the door without the dog, you’re SOL.
What I really dislike is they can easily track when my spouse and I leave or are at home.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad? As for remembering the code, keeping a piece of paper with the code is no different from keeping a key. To clarify my position, I am not in favor of the app for privacy reasons, and prefer the physical lock and key. But it isn't clear to me how far the dexterity argument goes.
In the same way that it seems like someone who could use a key could also use a keypad, it seems that someone who could use a keypad could also use a smartphone. At least one of these two logical steps is broken.
I don't think so. Someone who can use a keypad may have the manual dexterity to use a smartphone, but not necessarily be comfortable using a smartphone for this purpose. I have known people who are comfortable with pressing buttons on an old flip phone, but simply do not get how to use a smartphone. Grasping technology is about more than just manual dexterity.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#275The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…
>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad: “Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code t…
> A physical key requires more dexterity than pushing numbers on a keypad.
There are adapters and grips designed for people with arthritis.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#276WTF is with this site. Even with adblock enabled, it played video advertisement to me, and then started narrating the story.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does look like a privacy win to me. Isn't it?
The smart lock could be operated without identification, using a code. It’s not clear to me that this code was unique per user. This does not look like a privacy win to me. It looks like a good precedent that will aid in a privacy court battle in the future.
> The smart lock could be operated without identification, using a code. It’s not clear to me that this code was unique per user.
"It's not clear to me that this is true" is different from "this is false".
(Also note that the only evidence in the article even for the existence of the code, let alone the question of whether or not it identifies the tenant, is an attorney's claim; in the article, it is not denied, but nor does anyone else confirm it. For example, the attorney's claim is perfectly consistent with the possibility that there is a code, but that the landlord did not inform tenants of it, or would not provide it to them.)
> This does not look like a privacy win to me. It looks like a good precedent that will aid in a privacy court battle in the future.
But the article says:
> It won't set a legal precedent because it's a settlement, but it represents a win for tenants who had issues with smart locks and landlords installing them against their will.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
> charged, working smartphone Not just that, you also have to install a proprietary piece of software onto the phone from a third party and accept their TOS. > can provide other people with a pseudo-legitimate access to it I think in the news story the smart locks were only installed on the front door not on the doors to the homes. If the landlord installed them on the doors for the homes as well, that would be very…
> and accept their TOS... Money quote. People aren't thinking ahead here about what this opens you up to with respect to privacy loss. Think about the permissions on your phone such an app could ask for in the future. Now consider that if you don't grant them, you could potentially not get into your apartment. Smart locks are a cancer. We should cut them out early.
> People aren't thinking ahead here about what this opens you up to with respect to privacy loss. Think about the permissions on your phone such an app could ask for in the future. Now consider that if you don't grant them, you could potentially not get into your apartment.
Forget the future: the TOS currently permit the collection of personal information for marketing, to which the company blandly responded, "we don't do that".
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#279The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…
>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad: “Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code t…
It’s worth noting that many smart locks nowadays have flat capacitive-based keypads, which even I as an able-bodied adult have issues pressing accurately.
I used to live in a place with a main door that was a smart lock and I loved it, now I have to carry keys again which is super annoying.
But one time the battery died while the landlord was out of town, which meant I couldn’t get in my building for hours until his friend was able to find and bring over the physical key backup.
Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad: “Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code t…
It’s worth noting that many smart locks nowadays have flat capacitive-based keypads, which even I as an able-bodied adult have issues pressing accurately. I used to live in a place with a main door that was a smart lock and I loved it, now I have to carry keys again which is super annoying. But one time the battery died while the landlord was out of town, which meant I couldn’t get in my building for hours until his…
But one time the battery died while the landlord was out of town, which meant I couldn’t get in my building for hours until his friend was able to find and bring over the physical key backup.
Why not get your phone charged somewhere? Neighbors, a shop, ... surely someone could lend you an outlet + charger for 30 mins?