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Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

cnet.com

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Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#241

Post by swebs »

Insanity wrote: post #11
gmueckl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about having some actually solid walls and doors first instead of the cardboard-like materials of many US apartment buildings?

Family recently bought a house in the US, and it is pretty. But it is mainly wood by the looks of it. I do wonder how well that works (for y'know, not being fire hazard and not being terribly insulated, being able to whither bad weather conditions, ..). I have not visited their new place yet so I can't comment on what it is like to live there. But houses in Europe just look more sturdy. That is one thing that makes m…

Yes, most suburban houses are wood. In cities standalone houses tend to be brick, while newer apartment buildings tend to be glass, steel, and concrete. Insulation is fine since since there's fiberglass insulation between the frames. Houses are designed to have some airflow in order to remove humidity to avoid mold. Remember summers on the East Coast often hit 40 degrees C with 100% humidity. They can withstand most of America's extreme weather (blizzards, hurricanes, earthquakes) with the exception of tornadoes, which have the tendency to pull the roof off.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#242

Post by intopieces »

pjc50 wrote: post #23

The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…

>The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment.

When you say “The smart lock,” are you referring to the one in this story? The article mentions that this smart lock, which led to a common area, had a keypad:

“Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code to get in and didn't need an app. They'd also been offered codes they could enter without a phone.”

So a few things here.

(1) This system did not provide access to a tenant’s apartment directly, only a common area, probably a hallway or entry to the apartment area (article mentions tenant was trapped without it)

(2) The claim that a 93 year old lacked the dexterity to operate the smart lock is spurious. A physical key requires more dexterity than pushing numbers on a keypad.

Overall, this does not seem like a resounding victory for tenants everywhere. More like, a technical win that would support future action by tenants if they find themselves faced with a mandatory-smart-lock-on-their-actual-door situation, which this is not.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#244

Post by weliketocode »

Note that this was just a settlement, not a 'won' case.

As per me, I'll stand with the smart locks. They're better for everyone.

For landlords:

- change locks by adding/removing users & passcodes

- tenant forgets their code in the middle of the night? Remind them of the code

For tenants:

- No more lost keys; just remember a simple number or use your phone

Some of the anti-lock tech arguments here are just silly.

Landlords aren't going to use an electronic lock to harass you anymore than they'll use a regular lock. They'll have access either way.

But a landlord can use an electronic lock that's hard to open for the elderly, you say! That's NOTHING compared to having a heavy deadbolt that doesn't fit quite right and requires excess amounts of force.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#245

Post by balls187 »

zifnab06 wrote: post #240
hugi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Iceland, if the owner of a rented apartment would request key access to his tenants apartment, well… That would be considered "batshit crazy". But it probably comes down to cultural differences, America is very authoritarian.

Where I live (Seattle), a landlord can enter your apartment immediately if there's an emergency (ie something like it's an apartment and the downstairs neighbor reports water leaking from the ceiling), or with two days (48 hours) notice. My current apartment does the second one twice a year for fire alarm testing and, well, that's been it.

One day's written notice if it's to show the unit to a potential tenant.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#246

Post by xamuel »

From Philip K. Dick's "Ubik" (1969):

The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”

“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”

In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.

“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug.

From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.

“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out.

Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.”

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#247

Post by yrro »

setquk wrote: post #144
addicted wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know abounthe UK but I’m pretty sure I’ve had a lease agreement when I was a student that gave the landlord the right to enter at Will. It could still have been illegal, but it was definitely in the lease.

It's not quite that straightforward here in the UK. Well it is but the other way. The landlord has no right to enter a property outright. The property is for exclusive enjoyment by the tenant according to law. They can give 24 hours' notice and enter to do repairs etc but you can refuse that outright and they have no rights beyond that without taking you to court. If they turn up unannounced this is actually harassme…

> If they turn up unannounced this is actually harassment under UK law.

They probably have to do this repeatedly to meet the threshold for harassment.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#249

Post by aidenn0 »

bluGill wrote: post #226
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in my university days they would only give us one key to a room that was designated for our club. They had the special blanks with the second set of teeth on the inside. I just found "normal" blanks with the same cross section, whipped up the tooth profile and a holding fixture in some pirated CAD program and took a thumb drive and the blanks down to the machine shop during lab hours.

Anyone who knows how to use a machine shop can duplicate any key. For most keys there are specific machines that don't require skill to operate that duplicate it. The skill required to duplicate the other keys, combined with the "do not duplicate" stamp on the other keys means that such keys are rarely duplicated.

In the vast majority of the US, there is no law against businesses duplicating keys stamped with "do not duplicate" which means it's usually not too hard to find a shop that will do so.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#250

Post by yrro »

weliketocode wrote: post #244

Note that this was just a settlement, not a 'won' case. As per me, I'll stand with the smart locks. They're better for everyone. For landlords: - change locks by adding/removing users & passcodes - tenant forgets their code in the middle of the night? Remind them of the code For tenants: - No more lost keys; just remember a simple number or use your phone Some of the anti-lock tech arguments here are just silly. Land…

I wonder how likely a landlord would be to share the code upon receiving a suitable urgent-sounding text from an unknown number, containing only the property address and tenant's name (or perhaps not even that much...)
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