What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#501

Post by pnutjam » Fri, May 10, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #496

pnutjam wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents need to stay involved in their kids education. Many are forced away due to circumstances they can't control, but too many are willing to abdicate and let things run on autopilot. They they are surprised when their Tesla runs into a firetruck.

The thing is, the vast majority of parents do not have the kind of experience with the school system that our parents do. It's unreasonable to expect it. The system should work well even for those who don't have knowledgeable parents advocating for them, because most do not, and it's a horrible waste of talent for an entire country to throw away most of their potential geniuses through lack of good education that wor…

Of my oldest three daughters, two are in the "advanced" track. I personally think it stifles them. They are kept with the same small group of kids through elementary school and afew more are added in middle school (from neighboring elementaries), but all the kids have fairly interested parents and kids who can't keep up get shunted out. They struggle and feel stressed.

My oldest is not in the advanced track, but she's still able to take AP courses and keep a high GPA. She stresses less about socializing since she's been exposed to a wider variety of kids.

I'm don't think you have to know the ins and outs of school bureaucracy to help your student succeed. I do think you need to talk to them, keep informed of their progress, and make an effort to communicate with teachers.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#502

Post by rmc » Fri, May 10, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #224

hinkley wrote: post #36

> Sam prides himself on questioning conventional wisdom and subjecting claims to intellectual scrutiny. For kids today, that means Googling stuff. One might think these searches would turn up a variety of perspectives, including at least a few compelling counterarguments. One would be wrong. The Google searches flooded his developing brain with endless bias-confirming “proof” to back up whichever specious alt-right s…

The article doesn't use the term I've heard of to describe this, which is "data gap". Take something like a query for "Is the Earth Flat?". There's not a continual stream of videos, posts, and comments about how round the earth is (it's just taken as a given). So Google naturally floats content that says "The Earth is Flat" to the top. This plays out in all sorts of odd and horrific ways. There was a local political…

There's the story of Lyndon B. Johnson suggesting that his opponent had "carnal knowledge of his own pigs", just to make his opponent deny it.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#503

Post by natalyarostova » Fri, May 10, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

greedo wrote: post #500

natalyarostova wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not measuring it, I just know that people of Jewish origin are dramatically over-represented among journalism, banking, and fields such as physics or CS. It's common knowledge, although I'm sure there are ways to confirm it if you're so interested. (nothing unreasonable about that).

Many things that were once considered "common knowledge" turned out to be nothing of the sort. The idea you're espousing is a damaging one that reinforces the worst stereotypes about Jews.

I take pride in being extremely charitable and not toxic when discussing topics with people, but I find your accusation that I'm doing something damaging as incredibly rude and uncalled for.

The claim that Jews are over-represented in fields correlated with success, such as finance (once my field), journalism, and academic disciplines such as physics, is not damaging, even if it is wrong. How would the view that Jews tend to be successful be one of the 'worst stereotypes?'

It's strange to me that you're so unaware of Jewish success that a banal claim that Jews have a high representation in some fields has you shocked.

I took a few minutes to at least get a couple sources, but honestly if the idea that Jews are over-represented in fields like physics or journalism or economics (or ivy league universities) is new to you, then you haven't done a very good job paying attention in class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_and_religion https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4099803,00.html

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#504

Post by greedo » Fri, May 10, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

natalyarostova wrote: post #503

greedo wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many things that were once considered "common knowledge" turned out to be nothing of the sort. The idea you're espousing is a damaging one that reinforces the worst stereotypes about Jews.

I take pride in being extremely charitable and not toxic when discussing topics with people, but I find your accusation that I'm doing something damaging as incredibly rude and uncalled for. The claim that Jews are over-represented in fields correlated with success, such as finance (once my field), journalism, and academic disciplines such as physics, is not damaging, even if it is wrong. How would the view that Jews…

You're changing the goal posts. You went from saying their representation is extremely high to over-representation. Over-representation is simply a higher percentage than their demographics in the US might imply. High representation implies that they hold majority or near majority of influence.

It's strange to me that you're so unaware of the anti-semitic tropes that portray a Jewish cabal controlling politics and media in the US. Perhaps you weren't paying attention in class...

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#505

Post by deanCommie » Sat, May 11, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

renaudg wrote: post #490

deanCommie wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Europeans have their heads in the sand like ostriches about all forms of societal change. I'm a Canadian that just moved back after 4 years in Europe, and I found it impossible to have a progressive-minded conversation with most europeans (not all, but much higher ratio than at home) - about feminism, rape culture, about racial discrimination, about unconscious bias, about migration and immigration. Eu…

You have your own head in the sand about something else : most Europeans you spoke to were probably all too familiar with the kind of North American identity politics you were pushing onto them (what you describe as a "progressive-minded conversation"). Most of us (including progressives) find it alien, over the top, polarizing if not sometimes downright harmful and counterproductive. Our choice not to partake is a c…

I'm Canadian, not American, so I take no responsibility for Trump, or American puritanism, nationalism, or divisiveness.

The example you mention is apalling, but is just one version of the story. Here's another.

One morning during first period, a male friend of Sam’s made a sexual reference to a classmate of theirs using an inside joke. Sam laughed as they both poorly masked their attention on the girl. The girl at the table overheard their private conversation, frustrated with this not being the first time she was harassed by Sam and his friend got fed up, and reported it as sexual harassment. Sam’s guidance counselor, who's already heard about Sam and his coworker being sexually inappropriate in class, pulled Sam out of class and tried to have him have a "come to jesus" moment by taking the situation very seriously and explaining that sexual harassment is a crime. Sam ignored him, defended the comments as "just an inside joke", and was completely dismissive of his role in bullying his female classmates. Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who doubled down on trying to break through to Sam that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of paper, and instructed him to write a “statement of guilt.”

Is this the truth? Probably not directly.

But the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The rate of people getting accused of sexual harassment falsely is miniscule - maliciously or accidentally.

The rate of people get accused of sexual harassment, and are self-aware enough to understand their role, and admit it is also miniscule.

The most common situation is one where the accused simply do not care, and have plausibly deniable excuses for their behaviour, with "IT was just a JOKE" being #1 on the list of excuses.

I know, I've been one of them.

Historically, teenagers were given a lot of leeway with this - boys will be boys. Society is now dealing with it and saying "No, actually. You can cause real harm, and you need to give a shit about how your actions affect others."

Europe and Europeans are simply next.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#506

Post by dang » Sat, May 11, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

nailer wrote: post #362

honkycat wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying so hard to sound reasonable and "both sides" these threads but it is simple to clock you. Both sides do not have merit. Only one side advocates hate against minorities and white nationalism. Only one side has multiple mass shooters it it's ranks. One side is a xenophobic reactionary group that contains nazis, and the other is a counter-protest group.

You are comparing the most extreme of one side (white nationalists) with the other side and pretending Antifa isn't frequently violent towards anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders.

Please don't use HN for ideological battle. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#507

Post by dang » Sat, May 11, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #367

nailer wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing the most extreme of one side (white nationalists) with the other side and pretending Antifa isn't frequently violent towards anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders.

> with the other side and pretending Antifa isn't frequently violent towards anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders. Liar.

Personal attacks and name-calling are not allowed here, regardless of how right you are or how wrong someone else is.

It's also not allowed to use HN for ideological battle, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#508

Post by yourbandsucks » Sat, May 11, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #313

yourbandsucks wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I don't want to be a dick here, but your heroic story is that your parents had the juice to get you into college math classes as a high schooler? How many kids don't have that going for them? Maybe the best lesson for them is learning how to deal with the machine. Not that it's right. But it's what they'll need to do.

I don’t get why you’re saying that my story is heroic. Could you explain? I was some kid who got lucky and had parents who could navigate the system, it never felt heroic to me.

Cheers, nothing against you - I was commenting more on the overall culture.

I've taken every advantage I was offered as well (with varying degrees of success).

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#509

Post by skookumchuck » Sat, May 11, 2019, 3:21 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #495

skookumchuck wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a free market business, you can get special treatment, favors, etc., by offering more money. For example, if you want a better apartment, you pay more money for it. Under socialism, where supposedly everyone is treated equally and the apartments are supposedly equal, you get the better apartment using influence, trading favors, bartering, etc. For another example, when you need surgery, which surgeon do you get? U…

This distinction doesn't ring true to me. There is plenty of corruption of all types in capitalism as well. You never seen or heard of someone calling in a favor to help a friend, even though no money changes hands? Or even if money does change hands, it's often under the table (like the recent college admissions scandal), and doesn't actually go to pay the correct body for the service being rendered.

> You never seen or heard of someone calling in a favor to help a friend

Of course I have. But under capitalism the normal method is through prices. With socialism, the normal method is as I said, because the pricing method is not available.

For another example, food prices are set by the government under socialism. The actual "price" of food was how long you were willing to wait for it. People would pay others to stand in line for them. There were shortages of the better stuff. While in a free market grocery, the price varies daily depending on fluctuating demand and supply. Shortages are rare.

Talk to someone who used to live in the former USSR.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#510

Post by specialist » Sat, May 11, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #466

skookumchuck wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yeah, having someone in your corner who knows how to navigate the school system and get the best for you is super important. This is very typical of the bureaucracies that run socialism. It becomes a system of bartering favors, connections, and influence. (Instead of money.)

I thought socialism was the central ownership of the means of production. What do you think it means?

I too am unclear about the relationship between socialism and bureaucracy.

--

David Graeber argues that government's acquired bureaucracy from corporations.

The Utopia of Rules: On Technology, Stupidity, and the Secret Joys of Bureaucracy

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22245334-the-utopia-of-r...