Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

cnet.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 367 posts

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#31

Post by more_pylons »

lawlessone wrote: post #25
_v7gu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current apartment has a "smart lock" system for entry into the building. The system becomes unresponsive with no electricity, which means you're locked out. But you can kick open the door anyways, so at least that's an alternative to being locked out.

Jesus, what if that failed in a fire?

In the case of a fire tenents try to get out of the house and usually there is a normal manual turn lock on the inside of the door that works without electricity.

For the fire fighters, I assume they break down the door anyways?

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#32

Post by drilldrive »

jrockway wrote: post #15
lucb1e wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most house locks are trivial to pick in about 30 seconds How many training seconds are required to be able to manage an average of 30 seconds? Or do you mean destructive? If yes, is it loud? Maybe the American locks are different (doubt it) but as a casual lockpicker I can say it's not as trivial as you make it sound. Or if you're talking about destructive methods rather than picking, that's still better than an el…

The average lock around here can be trivially bumped and slightly-less-trivially picked. I wouldn't say your front door lock is the first lock you should try to pick, but it's definitely the second. Large apartment buildings of the size this article is about sometimes use better locks. I had a Medeco on one apartment I rented many years ago, but that's the best I've ever seen. Right now, I have a Schlage lock that ca…

On this topic, do you have any particular recommendations for locks, or recommendations from a lock-picking society?

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#33

Post by syshum »

>>>Lisa Gallaudet: characterizing the settlement as a win for the tenants is "misleading."

two seconds later

>>Lisa Gallaudet: when parties come to an agreement to resolve litigation, it's a win for both sides."

So is this lawyer being misleading by calling it a win...

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#34

Post by jakobegger »

danpalmer wrote: post #29

There are many issues with smart locks, but one thing I'm quite interested by are the entry policies you could set. As a renter, two things spring to mind: the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home, and the ability to potentially enforce the legal notice period for the landlord entering the home (in the UK a landlord must provide 24 hours notice before entering).

> the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home

This has a massive potential for abuse. Imagine if your landlord could just take away access to your appartment remotely whenever they want.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#35

Post by handzbagz1 »

danpalmer wrote: post #29

There are many issues with smart locks, but one thing I'm quite interested by are the entry policies you could set. As a renter, two things spring to mind: the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home, and the ability to potentially enforce the legal notice period for the landlord entering the home (in the UK a landlord must provide 24 hours notice before entering).

But that would be managed by the letting agent who would have to impose access limits on themselves and people just aren't good at imposing limits that apply to themselves.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#36

Post by gmueckl »

Insanity wrote: post #11
gmueckl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about having some actually solid walls and doors first instead of the cardboard-like materials of many US apartment buildings?

Family recently bought a house in the US, and it is pretty. But it is mainly wood by the looks of it. I do wonder how well that works (for y'know, not being fire hazard and not being terribly insulated, being able to whither bad weather conditions, ..). I have not visited their new place yet so I can't comment on what it is like to live there. But houses in Europe just look more sturdy. That is one thing that makes m…

Well, during the Seattle "Snowpocalypse" (that is, the few actually cold days in the area last winter), the heater (actually, the AC doubling as heating unit) in my apartment had to work overtime to make up for the bad insulation. The worst offender was the balcony door that was just a normal wooden door with no proper rubber seal around it and even pretty big open gap between it and the floor. The single pane windows probably didn't help, either.

If this is average for the construction in the US, then there is a lot of room for improvement. You can absolutely build lasting wooden houses with adequate fire protection and good insulation. But it seems that there's not a lot of incentive to do so on that continent.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#37

Post by sc11 »

danpalmer wrote: post #29

There are many issues with smart locks, but one thing I'm quite interested by are the entry policies you could set. As a renter, two things spring to mind: the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home, and the ability to potentially enforce the legal notice period for the landlord entering the home (in the UK a landlord must provide 24 hours notice before entering).

> the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home

This doesn't really require a smart lock. In Germany it's common to replace the lock immediately once you rent a place and put the original lock back in when you move out. This prevents the landlord, previous tenants and whoever else might still have keys from entering without your permission.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#38

Post by r3bl »

danpalmer wrote: post #29

There are many issues with smart locks, but one thing I'm quite interested by are the entry policies you could set. As a renter, two things spring to mind: the ability to immediately remove previous tenants access to the home, and the ability to potentially enforce the legal notice period for the landlord entering the home (in the UK a landlord must provide 24 hours notice before entering).

You don't need a smart lock for the second one, a cheap indoor camera that can send you alerts achieves the same. An even simpler solution is a spare Android running Haven[0] (I don't know if Edward Snowden actually created it, but he's usually associated with it).

As a tenant (and a hotel guest) I've used both of these methods over the years. Granted, I've never lived in a home that has a smart lock, but I know I would feel much safer using my own hardware for the purpose.

[0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.havenapp.m...

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#39

Post by dictum »

est31 wrote: post #26
pjc50 wrote: post #23

The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…

> charged, working smartphone Not just that, you also have to install a proprietary piece of software onto the phone from a third party and accept their TOS. > can provide other people with a pseudo-legitimate access to it I think in the news story the smart locks were only installed on the front door not on the doors to the homes. If the landlord installed them on the doors for the homes as well, that would be very…

Which then pings Facebook/Google/some other third party about your activity.

Re: Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from landlords

#40

Post by tempguy9999 »

pjc50 wrote: post #23

The comments seem to be missing the two key aspects: accessibility and surveillance. The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment. One of the claimants is 93 and lacks the manual dexterity to do that. On top of that, smart locks can report when you enter and exit your home to the landlord; and, if under the landlord control, can provide oth…

I don't have a smartphone and I doubt I'll ever choose to get one.

I have a dumb phone and mainly leave that at home. Anybody who wants me can leave a message and wait for a callback. Seems to work well for past 20 years.

I don't have a fancy one for the very reasons of tracking, loss of privacy/data collection and above all for this type of use, and what the parent didn't mention, I do not trust tech even slightly, being a tech guy myself.

If you rely on power and intelligence, other than manpower and brainpower, to unlock a door, then you're a bloody fool.

(NB cost of a spare key ~£5).

Post reply on HN