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The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

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Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#71

Post by billziss »

Although many people seem to be receiving the WSL2 news well, I am one of the few that feels that we will be missing something important with this new direction.

WSL1 was pushing the boundaries of OS research: - a method for having multiple syscall interfaces in a mainstream OS - processes in WSL1 were real NT processes (even if lacking some of the NTOS environment) - direct integration with the rest of the OS without an awkward VM separation layer.

In comparison WSL2 is basically an optimized VM with some fancy guest additions. Color me underwhelmed.

I understand the argument that WSL2 is faster than WSL1 in file system operations. I expect this will only be true for their root file system ("VolFs") and that performance will remain same or suffer for Windows drives ("DrvFs"). I am certain that they could fix "VolFs" performance by moving the file system of NTFS and into a raw disk partition or VHD. (Note: I write file systems both in and out of kernel.)

Finally WSL2 will be distributed with Windows which raises some licensing questions (IANAL) if not in the letter of the GPL license at least in spirit. I write GPL'ed software myself and I would be somewhat miffed if I saw my software used in a similar manner (i.e. "via a VM", but still distributed with non-GPL code).

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#72

Post by CWuestefeld »

resters wrote: post #62
wnevets wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah one of the big selling points of WSL1 was the lack of VM.

why is that? performance?

Hyper-V and VMWare don't work well together. If your machine is running on VMWare (as do our development workstations), then you won't be able to use Hyper-V. This already prevents us from using Docker on the dev workstations themselves (which are Win10).

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#73

Post by bitwize »

vbezhenar wrote: post #59
bitwize wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two clipboards in X11. One is the middle-click-paste, selection clipboard that gets clobbered when you highlight something. But C-x, C-c, and C-v (in CUA applications) operate on a different clipboard altogether that doesn't exhibit this behavior.

And that is awesome feature that I miss a lot in other operating systems.

It's a wart of X11, which is obsolete and deprecated. Wayland has a single clipboard which behaves in mostly the standard way.

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#74

Post by rjsw »

billziss wrote: post #71

Although many people seem to be receiving the WSL2 news well, I am one of the few that feels that we will be missing something important with this new direction. WSL1 was pushing the boundaries of OS research: - a method for having multiple syscall interfaces in a mainstream OS - processes in WSL1 were real NT processes (even if lacking some of the NTOS environment) - direct integration with the rest of the OS withou…

Multiple syscall interfaces is how Linux emulation has been done in the BSD world for many years.

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#75

Post by billziss »

rjsw wrote: post #74
billziss wrote: post #71

Although many people seem to be receiving the WSL2 news well, I am one of the few that feels that we will be missing something important with this new direction. WSL1 was pushing the boundaries of OS research: - a method for having multiple syscall interfaces in a mainstream OS - processes in WSL1 were real NT processes (even if lacking some of the NTOS environment) - direct integration with the rest of the OS withou…

Multiple syscall interfaces is how Linux emulation has been done in the BSD world for many years.

Yes, I am aware of the Linux emulation in FreeBSD and elsewhere.

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#76

Post by alex7o »

sk0g wrote: post #33
apotatopot wrote: post #2

Just release Office for Linux and this wouldn't be necessary at all.

That's incredibly short sighted, isn't it? I like to record audio, and use DAWs and plugins/ VSTs. What about artists who use graphic design or video editing programs? Is your use case the only valid one, for whatever reason?

Repaer also works natively even on a Raspberry Pi.

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#78

Post by chrisdfrey »

skrebbel wrote: post #54
jchw wrote: post #22

I was initially very excited for WSL2, but I do worry it will require Hyper-V to be enabled. I use VMWare Workstation and it’s a true pain to switch Hyper-V on and off. Also, I cant help but worry that this will somehow be a downgrade in some way... will it be just as integrated? Windows Firewall worked on WSL Pico processes for example.

if it needs hyper-v, then what's the point? how is it fundamentally different from just running ubuntu in virtualbox with a shared network drive, then? except where the terminal window is?

Because Hyper-V is a type 1 hypervisor, VMs that use it can be faster; I've found using docker in virtualbox is a lot slower than using docker for Windows (which uses Hyper-V).

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#79

Post by benou »

eatonphil wrote: post #65

Switched to Windows from Linux on my work laptop 6 months ago. First-class support for Zoom, Office, screen-sharing, presenting, etc. is good. General terminal-based development is not fantastic, but WSL made it possible at all. I can run all but my most Linux-specific programs (e.g. dependent on procfs). Aside from not have some Linux pseudo-filesystems the bigger issue has been the speed of file operations. I dread…

Count me in.

Regarding the networking issue, I sort of solved it by using VMBus between my VM and Windows. Shameless plug: https://github.com/bganne/hvnc

Re: The New Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) Architecture [video]

#80

Post by rjsw »

billziss wrote: post #75
rjsw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple syscall interfaces is how Linux emulation has been done in the BSD world for many years.

Yes, I am aware of the Linux emulation in FreeBSD and elsewhere.

How is it pushing the boundaries of OS research then ?
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