We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business • Hacker News Board

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#431

Post by mprev » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

sbov wrote: post #411

mprev wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is BS. It matters very much to me as a customer of a financial services provider what sort of company I am keeping. For example, I don't want my bank to provide services to organised crime because I both feel that would be morally wrong and I think it'd open the bank's staff to influences that aren't in the best interests of other customers. Also, your argument isn't with PayPal; it's with the entire FS industry…

Organized crime is illegal and content farms are not, so this is a terrible example. A better example might be highly religious community not wanting their bank to do business with companies focused on the gay and lesbian community. This is a good example because: it is not illegal for a company to cater to the gay and lesbian community, it is not illegal to discriminate against gay and lesbian people in many states,…

Your example is irrelevant as that’s a civil rights issue.

Either way, I gave the example of organised crime not in an attempt for people to take it as a literal suggestion of equivalence but to argue against the idea that a financial institution has no place being choosey about its customers.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#432

Post by peckrob » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

ROFISH wrote: post #374

peckrob wrote: post #47

I used to help run a rather large fan convention. For our first 5 years (starting in about late 2003 or so), PayPal was the only option we offered for registering online. At the time, they were really the only option for implementing online payments easily without the complexity of a full merchant stack (and it was just me doing the programming, volunteering to help them while I was still in college). By the time we…

Event tickets are explicitly on PayPal’s terms of service as needing a hold.

That is the case now, yes, but I don't recall that being the case at the time. That said, we are talking sixteen years ago.

Regardless, I would not recommend any business accept PayPal unless you are large enough to get their attention. There are far too many stories out there like OP's, of individuals, as well as small and medium sized businesses, getting absolutely hosed by some automated algorithm at PayPal and having zero recourse to even find out what happened. Customer "service" is nonexistent there. In my opinion, the only thing PayPal is good for is sending money between people.

Short of filing a lawsuit, and you probably can't even do that because they now have an arbitration agreement in their terms.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#433

Post by linuxftw » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:27 PM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #154

linuxftw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you don't call Uber in this case. You immediately call the card issuer and report fraud. In the case of debit charges, reacting quickly is absolutely key. Always pay with a credit card, it's much easier to reverse this kind of stuff versus a debit card. There is literally no good reason to ever use a debit card.

> There is literally no good reason to ever use a debit card Unless you're trying to get out cash from an ATM, or make any other cash-advance-like purchase. Then there's a really good reason to use a debit card instead of a credit card. It's the only time I use my debit card.

I was going to make this distinction, but didn't. You could read it as "... for purchases" I suppose.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#434

Post by mattigames » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

Lowkeyloki wrote: post #401

mprev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ooof, PBNs are literal spam. They're designed to game Google by producing a deluge of low quality content with backlinks on whatever search terms you're hoping to squat on. I'm utterly sick of this kind of junk.

True, but as long as there are rules, somebody is going to find a loophole or a way to game the system. I'd personally be more concerned with Google improving their product or with society's increasing reliance on a single company's service and our unwillingness to consume information critically. PBNs are garbagey, but trying to put them all down is unrealistic. And even if they could be stopped, it would only be a b…

Hundreds of sites have been brought down for hosting pirated movies thanks to laws against that, don't know why putting down PBns would be unrealistic.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#435

Post by linuxftw » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #223

linuxftw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you don't call Uber in this case. You immediately call the card issuer and report fraud. In the case of debit charges, reacting quickly is absolutely key. Always pay with a credit card, it's much easier to reverse this kind of stuff versus a debit card. There is literally no good reason to ever use a debit card.

I use a debit card because it makes it much easier to manage my finances. As soon as I pay for something, it's immediately deducted from my bank balance, so I can always see exactly how much money I have. If I screw up and try to spend above my balance, the transaction gets blocked, because I have overdraft protection turned off. (And, I have money in other accounts for emergencies.)

This is convenient, until someone steals your card number and you spending power goes to $0. This really sucks when the rent/mortgage is due, because oops, check bounced (which is a felony in my jurisdiction).

Credit cards are also subject to holds.

It might be convenient today, but it's like driving around without your seat belt on. It might allow you to enter and exit the vehicle quicker, but that's not really the point.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#436

Post by linuxftw » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

Dayshine wrote: post #208

nothrabannosir wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: in the UK, advise is to avoid using your CC over 25% of your limit. Apparently this might negatively affect your credit score. One source: https://monzo.com/blog/2018/08/08/better-credit-score/ , a bank’s blog, but I’ve seen it in other places. Never from the horse’s mouth, though.

What relevance does your credit score have to day-to-day life in the UK? As far as I can tell mortgages are dependent on you having OK credit, not good credit. You don't seem to get better rates dependent on your credit score. Credit card rates are irrelevant, you shouldn't be carrying a balance. What else do you really need a credit score for?

Some people have a Pavlovian response to anything with credit score. The propaganda has worked. In the US, we have countless TV commercials about "Check your credit score!"

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#437

Post by linuxftw » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #221

linuxftw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you don't call Uber in this case. You immediately call the card issuer and report fraud. In the case of debit charges, reacting quickly is absolutely key. Always pay with a credit card, it's much easier to reverse this kind of stuff versus a debit card. There is literally no good reason to ever use a debit card.

>There is literally no good reason to ever use a debit card. A good reason would be if you don't have credit cards because you have serious problems controlling your spending and you're at a place where you can't pay with cash, such as an unmanned gas station, payment terminal, on a plane, a cash-less business, etc. I agree with the overall point, either use cash or use credit. Debit only if cash and credit aren't av…

That's not a good reason, that's a reason for children. Responsible adults don't do this type of thing.

If you have serious problems controlling your spending, might as well spend someone else's money that you can discharge, versus just have no money in your checking account all the time.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#438

Post by DoofusOfDeath » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #32

The lack of customer service in the Silicon Valley is a pervasive problem. * Cody Don on YouTube teaches the masses about science and regularly gets banned. His videos are rated G to PG. Despite millions of viewers and dollars of Revenue, there is nobody he can call. * Uber charged $1500 to my debut card a few months ago. There's literally nobody you can call about it. * Lose your Instagram/Twitter/Gmail? Too bad, be…

> Uber charged $1500 to my debut card a few months ago. There's literally nobody you can call about it.

If you're in the U.S., I would think your state's Attorney General. It's potentially either theft or fraud, I would think.

Or if your A.G. won't pursue it, go after Uber in small-claims court. Not only are you likely to recoup your lost money, but you'd cause them some pain and/or lawyer fees.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#439

Post by gambler » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

sfkdjf9j3j wrote: post #423

gambler wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legal marijuana shops are still mostly cash only specifically because they can’t bank, due to weed being federally illegal. There is a world of difference between closing accounts that are used to pay for activities that are illegal and closing accounts because the client does something you don't like, especially if the service provider can't even point out which part of their TOS was violated. >businesses designed…

What are you getting at here? Do you want the government to restrict free association in order to provide access to payment platforms for spammers?

Where exactly in my post I asked for government restricting free association? It sounds like you just wanted to post this particular talking point and couldn't find a place with more relevance.

What do I want?

I want large payment service providers to have clear and universally enforced rules that pertain only to services they provide, stick to those rules when deciding whom to ban, provide exact reasons for their decision and have a process of redress. It's pretty obvious that PayPal fails at this, miserably, even if you can point out some individual cases where they might be "in the right".

I also want posters who act like corporate cheerleaders here to provide independently observable criteria for whatever bans they "approve". Increasingly often I see astounding hypocrisy when the same person cheers for banning of one organization and against banning another, even though both are banned for the exact same behavior.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#440

Post by qbaqbaqba » Thu, May 09, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #422

rak00n wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "They don't care, because it's a numbers game to them." This sounds so similar to all other large tech companies, specially Google. Somewhere along the line all these tech companies lost user focus.

Google has spectacular user focus on the users that pay them (i.e. advertisers).

Not really. Perhaps the huge ones, but if you are small, medium or even a big one they don't care.