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We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

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Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#381

Post by rescbr »

LeonM wrote: post #320
thedaemon wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit / Debit cards are the same thing online. We, as is USA people, use the terms interchangeable often. I'm going to guess that most EU people have some form of banking card. So we will continue to assume that people have a form of payment other than cash.

> Credit / Debit cards are the same thing online. No, they are not. With a credit card you can pay by entering the card number, expiry date and CVC. With debit card you can't do that. The payment must go through your bank. It's a completely different payment flow.

> With debit card you can't do that

It depends on the debit card. I have both Visa Electron and Maestro, and they have 16 digits, CVV number and they behave like a credit card with 3D Secure when doing online purchases, while taking the money from the account right away.

There's also multifunction credit and debit cards (Mastercard and Maestro, or the Visa equivalent). They are branded like credit cards with a tiny Maestro logo on their backside, so I had to explain and ask the cashier in a grocery store in Amsterdam to try it as it would magically work as a debit card.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#382

Post by dmix »

anonymousab wrote: post #377
magduf wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are businesses, not charities. It's not just that: these are businesses, not the government. A lot of free-speech advocates and libertarian thinkers seem to think somehow that private businesses somehow have a responsibility to uphold free speech, and they simply don't. It's the government that can't restrict you from free speech (in the USA); but companies don't have to put up with it on their property or whe…

Many people believe that businesses and corporations have a responsibility to uphold and respect free speech as a societal virtue moreso than as a constitutional right. This isn't a crazy position given the power many companies wield over the workings of society.

Social pressure on businesses has always been a big part of capitalist societies and this pressure comes in many forms. Ultimately societies of people are far more than a sum of their economic system. Economic systems shouldn't be what defines the morality of the people in society, that comes through community, culture, media, etc in addition to the judicial systems and governments (which all capitalist economies operate within).

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#383

Post by harimau777 »

kristianc wrote: post #342
_pmf_ wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody disagrees that this is what you have to do in PayPal's current state. The debate is to whether you should have to do it, or whether, given that it walks and talks like a bank, PayPal should nationally and globally be treated as a bank.

A bank that suspected money laundering or suspicious activity would be expected to behave in exactly the same way. Any regulated entity would.

I think the argument is that with a bank they cannot arbitrarily freeze your account, you are given a reason for any freeze, and have the opportunity to fight it. However, I don't know enough about banking law to know if that's accurate.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#384

Post by pombrand »

Got my Paypal account and money frozen for shipping a product that was legal to sell in the US, but not online in the UK.

After asking around they told me the reason, and after implementing a system that stopped orders to the UK of said product they unfroze the account.

Yes they could have given me a warning and been more transparent, but overall not too mad.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#385

Post by Aunche »

teddyh wrote: post #147
vntok wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frozen, as long as they don't take the money either.

But with PayPal, that’s not the case. Your “money” in your account at PayPal is just a number in a table. The actual money, however, is in PayPal’s bank account where it is earning PayPal interest and investment opportunities.

I may be wrong like this, but I think only banks are allowed to earn interest on your cash, and Paypal isn't a bank.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#386

Post by AstralStorm »

BurningFrog wrote: post #334
novaleaf wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to generalize, you shouldn't keep your money in any 3rd party longer than necessary.

Is a bank a 3rd party in this argument?

The most potent 3rd party is typically vindication and government laws giving it superpowers. They have more power over your money than banks.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#387

Post by kristianc »

harimau777 wrote: post #383
kristianc wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bank that suspected money laundering or suspicious activity would be expected to behave in exactly the same way. Any regulated entity would.

I think the argument is that with a bank they cannot arbitrarily freeze your account, you are given a reason for any freeze, and have the opportunity to fight it. However, I don't know enough about banking law to know if that's accurate.

That's not the case, a bank works in the same way. Typically a bank or financial institution will employ a set of machine learning models or rules (combined with human review) and freeze accounts on that basis.

Like PayPal, a bank also will not tell you why it has frozen your account (to avoid ripping off others in a crime ring). PayPal (like banks) give you an opportunity to fight it, but like banks they can't simply let you have the money if it is frozen.

Also, working in banking - banks and financial institutions will go out of their way to avoid false positives but do still need to remain compliant.

https://monzo.com/blog/2019/04/04/why-we-block-freeze-close-...

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#388

Post by AstralStorm »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #339
jandrese wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It stops them from freezing the account on Paypal. If you really want to insulate from the service you would set up a similar job at your bank that would immediately transfer the funds out of that account and into some other account. But honestly if you are going to this much trouble is it even worth it to use Paypal?

Just about any processor, Stripe included, stipulates they can withdraw from your account. And what if their systems are hacked, disclosing your account and routing numbers to an ill-intentioned third party? You probably want this as a generic fail safe for any account that you disclose the account an routing number to an outside entity.

This is why bank preventing unauthorized withdrawals is so useful. And credit card processor disputes too.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#389

Post by AstralStorm »

graeme wrote: post #189
foggyToads wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that protect against them erroneously withdrawing large sums from your account and hitting you with overdraft or repeated NSF fees?

Isn't the max loss there rather tiny? Especially if you have overdraft off on the paypal bank account. You can disconnect the account if something happens and there are fees accruing. Edit: I'm replying to a really low odds scenario, where: 1. You auto sweep all money out of paypal 2. You regularly empty the checking account it sends to You have at risk maybe $1000-$2000 in the chequing + less than $100 in fees. For…

The loss of money can be small compared to loss of business.

It is an interesting angle to try a civil suit for.

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