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Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

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Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#31
post #6

The problem is that we've equated some platforms with a certain kind of media. Youtube is video, Twitter is news, Facebook is.. reality tv, I dunno. It's pretty debatable whether those platforms are the right place for the coverage of war crimes. I'm not going to start an argument about the media not doing their job right. However, this discussion would be moot if there was a news platform on par with the above, and…

Back in the 90s, I recall much talk about "citizen-based news". But the reality is far more complicated. I could build a Tor onion site with throwaway clearnet proxies. But how would anyone know that it existed? And even if they did, how would they use it from phones? You'd need apps for that, and so that requires approval from Google and/or Apple.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#32
The article centers around activity in Syria, but the problem is much more endemic. In the United States, Apple has consistently taken down apps providing information about US government airstrikes - including those that strike wedding processions, children, bystanders, etc. Recent efforts to identify and scrub foreign propagandists in the United States have silenced legitimate voices of domestic dissent, as foreign influence campaigns typically attempt to magnify grassroots dissenting opinions (this is true also of US foreign intelligence efforts). There's many reasons why these kinds of apps, comments, and conversations are taken down due to their content.

Fundamentally, being a gateway to information in a legal environment where the hosting the content as a curator puts you under risk creates deep incentives to whitewash content. Those forces are already present for companies which might accidentally sustain 9gag/4chan type cultures/commentary which contradicts however its productizing its platform.

Reddit is another example a company that has recently scrubbed itself of most controversial content, including content critical of or dangerous to its host's countries political and national security naratives. Twitter has started down that journey as well.

It feels like we're experiencing the growing pains of social network and hosted content boom reinvented on web technology over the past couple decades.

It's kind of amazing in retrospect how controversial some of the "mundane" applications of technology to society have been, whereas a couple decades ago most of the moral panic centered around concepts like "online dating", which to date have actually been relatively controversy scarce.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#33
post #31
post #6

The problem is that we've equated some platforms with a certain kind of media. Youtube is video, Twitter is news, Facebook is.. reality tv, I dunno. It's pretty debatable whether those platforms are the right place for the coverage of war crimes. I'm not going to start an argument about the media not doing their job right. However, this discussion would be moot if there was a news platform on par with the above, and…

Back in the 90s, I recall much talk about "citizen-based news". But the reality is far more complicated. I could build a Tor onion site with throwaway clearnet proxies. But how would anyone know that it existed? And even if they did, how would they use it from phones? You'd need apps for that, and so that requires approval from Google and/or Apple.

Android apps don't require approval from Google to be installed.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#34
The podcast episode "post no evil" about Facebooks moderation problems, covers something very similar where during the Mexican border drug wars people were posting images of dead bodies hung from overpassed and shootouts.

Facebook had internal debates over whether this counted as news or breached content guidelines

I recommend the podcast greatly.

But perhaps we need a simpler approach - a funded "journalism" archive where the tech firms can shift the posts to online storage (ie not delete it) but section it off for later analysis.

Seems the only likely compromise.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#35

The article centers around activity in Syria, but the problem is much more endemic. In the United States, Apple has consistently taken down apps providing information about US government airstrikes - including those that strike wedding processions, children, bystanders, etc. Recent efforts to identify and scrub foreign propagandists in the United States have silenced legitimate voices of domestic dissent, as foreign…

Australia lacks safe harbour laws which the US has had for some time. This has a chilling effect on certain types of platforms. Even something like a photo hosting site is very risk heavy in Australia as the type of content on your servers is your responsibility.

I feel like those safe harbour laws in the US are at risk, at least in practice, as the idea of a content "conduit" begins being less plausible as platforms start moderating more and more.

Now, I am all in favour of moderation. Real life communities are moderated, and all the strongest online communities have some kind of moderation. But there needs to be protections for companies who are moderating the best they can and still have evil content on the site. Else these platforms won't be sustainable and will be in heavy legal risk to boot. They won't make much sense anymore.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#36
Of course the point I forgot to make is that we suddenly have access to all the world's evidence - that every good and bad issue around the globe is now passing through these forms data centres ... and we are not used to that. Our brains seem wired to weight bad news much more heavily.

We need to remember Douglas Adams advice - "It's vitally important not to have a sense of perspective"

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#37
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the 90s, I recall much talk about "citizen-based news". But the reality is far more complicated. I could build a Tor onion site with throwaway clearnet proxies. But how would anyone know that it existed? And even if they did, how would they use it from phones? You'd need apps for that, and so that requires approval from Google and/or Apple.

Android apps don't require approval from Google to be installed.

From Google Play they do, right? And how many people use alternate sources for Android?

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#38

The podcast episode "post no evil" about Facebooks moderation problems, covers something very similar where during the Mexican border drug wars people were posting images of dead bodies hung from overpassed and shootouts. Facebook had internal debates over whether this counted as news or breached content guidelines I recommend the podcast greatly. But perhaps we need a simpler approach - a funded "journalism" archive…

Something like the Internet Archive?

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#39
This sounds like a perfect reason why sites like LiveLeak exist. I don't know if I care that Facebook doesn't host videos that go against its TOS, but if sites like LiveLeak are forbidden from hosting these videos even though they want to, it would make me worried.

Re: Tech Companies Are Deleting Evidence of War Crimes

#40

The podcast episode "post no evil" about Facebooks moderation problems, covers something very similar where during the Mexican border drug wars people were posting images of dead bodies hung from overpassed and shootouts. Facebook had internal debates over whether this counted as news or breached content guidelines I recommend the podcast greatly. But perhaps we need a simpler approach - a funded "journalism" archive…

And now Facebook is banning random harmless idiots like Paul Joseph Watson - for 'being a dangerous individual' even though he's clearly not a terrorist or whatever. It's insane.
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