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Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

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Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty good. But then knowing that ambiguity, I could craft a statement like, "I walked a mile on the treadmill today."

Exactly, and if you keep going, you'd notice you need each time a longer, more precise description, which at the same time, paradoxically, opens the door for more ambiguity. In that example, the first context is English language, then knowing who I is, then what a mile is, and a treadmill and today. All of those are contextual. Even mile. How long is a mile? Like any physical measure, it actually varies, because it i…

I understand where you are coming from, but a lot of what you just presented isn't actually relevant to the topic of ambiguity from lack of context in language. Some of it just doesn't apply. Allow me to explain...

> the first context is English language

Let's ignore this context. If you don't understand English then you shouldn't be expected to understand an English statement regardless of context.

> How long is a mile?

That depends on what time and space you are in. But that's ok. All such measurements are relative and defined by non-natural constructs. But we can be realistic and assume a mile is whatever our government has decided.

When I tell you "I ran a mile", I'm not telling someone in Australia I ran a mile. I"m telling you that. If we are speaking over the internet it might complicate things, but we only have to resolve the meaning of mile once for our relationship, and all proceeding discussions will use this meaning.

I would argue that this makes the word mile unambiguous in the sense that you are saying. If we had to assert each time what I meant by a mile, then that would be ambiguous.

> that sentence might not make any sense to someone reading it in 20 years

Evolution of language is a separate phenomenon. We don't need to consider that. Only what the language means today right now as I use it. That's the utility of language. For older English texts, we have literature which matches our common vernacular to the vernacular of the time. Foreign translations are out of scope for the same reason listed above. Since we have mappings between today's English and yesterday's English, I would again argue that this is not a source of ambiguity.

> And then when is today? May 7, 2019

That doesn't have anything to do with language. That is a chronospacial coordinate. It represents a certain degree of completion of our orbit around the sun. It isn't a measurement of time at all. It's only relative in the sense that all time and space measurements are relative to the spacetime coordinate of the Big Bang.

Time is inherently a relative concept. We don't have time unless we are comparing (relating) two different frames. We define one in terms relative to the other (motion, state, etc). In a single, non-relative frame of reference time just doesn't exist.

> And then finally, what if you were lying?

Again, this has nothing to do with language. You aren't trying to guess what I'm thinking, you're trying to understand what I'm saying. That's what language parsing is about. Discussion of motivations, misdirection, etc. is irrelevant.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#82

This ties in quite nicely with Karl Friston's Free Energy Principle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIu_dJGyIQI There are so many strands of neuroscience that show predictive coding now. There's a really nice example in the use of common vs unusual words in sentences. If you're using fMRI to scan someone while they read these two sentences: The jam on the motorway made everything slow. The jam on the motorway made e…

And that flash of activity is also the basis of humor. We find unexpected things like this funny, the reward that helps our brains to analyze and learn from the unexpected situation.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#83

Like Meltdown and Spectre for your brain... hard to exploit, but not impossible.

I don't think a part of the brain tries to exfiltrate information from another by using moments when predictive coding is invalidated. Those moments when prediction fails are very useful, we learn from them.

We learn how to create representations of the present by conditioning them on correct prediction of the future. We build world models and thus get to imagine future scenarios, very useful in planning our actions both for achieving higher rewards and avoiding dangers.

So we get sensory representation and world modelling for free - no need to be taught explicitly, the teaching signal is just the link between present and future.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and if you keep going, you'd notice you need each time a longer, more precise description, which at the same time, paradoxically, opens the door for more ambiguity. In that example, the first context is English language, then knowing who I is, then what a mile is, and a treadmill and today. All of those are contextual. Even mile. How long is a mile? Like any physical measure, it actually varies, because it i…

I understand where you are coming from, but a lot of what you just presented isn't actually relevant to the topic of ambiguity from lack of context in language. Some of it just doesn't apply. Allow me to explain... > the first context is English language Let's ignore this context. If you don't understand English then you shouldn't be expected to understand an English statement regardless of context. > How long is a m…

Interesting. All of the above rebuttals are basically: ignore this because it's context and should be obvious.

Well, that's the problem. It might seem obvious to you now, but it is not obvious to everyone all the time, which is what makes any statement ambiguous.

Additionally, I don't know the purpose of what you are saying. For example, you might say you ran a mile because you wanted to express you were tired, or because you wanted to imply you are healthy, or who knows why, it is definitely not clear from the statement alone what you wanted to convey, which is the main problem.

We feel something internally and then we try to express that in words, hoping that those words will mean the same to the person perceiving them. That process is highly suceptible to noise in many forms, like the other person not hearing you correctly, being distracted, being stressed out, or maybe they speak a slightly different version of your language and some of the words or expressions mean something a bit different to them than to you.

In the end, any statement doesn't have meaning by itself, it only acquires meaning when someone interprets it and understands it in a certain way. That is always a subjective process.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can make unambiguous sentences: "I walked one mile today." Unless context specifically indicates the very rare possibility that walked is personal shorthand for another activity, it's a pretty unambiguous statement.

I can think of two different ways to interpret that sentence. 1: They went for a walk as a single activity on top of their regular daily walking, and that walk was a mile long. 2. They walked a total of 1 mile throughout the entire day, including regular walking around the house/office etc. I do agree with the sentiment though, there definitely are plenty of unambiguous sentences you can say in everyday conversation.…

What if you walked an indeterminate length for an Airline mile?

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from, but a lot of what you just presented isn't actually relevant to the topic of ambiguity from lack of context in language. Some of it just doesn't apply. Allow me to explain... > the first context is English language Let's ignore this context. If you don't understand English then you shouldn't be expected to understand an English statement regardless of context. > How long is a m…

Interesting. All of the above rebuttals are basically: ignore this because it's context and should be obvious. Well, that's the problem. It might seem obvious to you now, but it is not obvious to everyone all the time, which is what makes any statement ambiguous. Additionally, I don't know the purpose of what you are saying. For example, you might say you ran a mile because you wanted to express you were tired, or be…

Honestly I feel like we could have a very deep conversation about this because I certainly agree with a lot of what you're saying.

Language is certainly subjective, but I would argue that we can make certain concessions on what context truly is "obvious" and what isn't. And I think the matter of what level of precision is acceptable enough to consider a statement or idea "understood" is up for debate and is also contextual.

At some point, any extra information is just that, extra information. The core idea may have been expressed fully, even if there are certain small ambiguities or if the listener wishes to draw insight from the statement beyond the basic sentiment expressed.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. All of the above rebuttals are basically: ignore this because it's context and should be obvious. Well, that's the problem. It might seem obvious to you now, but it is not obvious to everyone all the time, which is what makes any statement ambiguous. Additionally, I don't know the purpose of what you are saying. For example, you might say you ran a mile because you wanted to express you were tired, or be…

Honestly I feel like we could have a very deep conversation about this because I certainly agree with a lot of what you're saying. Language is certainly subjective, but I would argue that we can make certain concessions on what context truly is "obvious" and what isn't. And I think the matter of what level of precision is acceptable enough to consider a statement or idea "understood" is up for debate and is also cont…

Completely agree with you.

Language is an incredibly useful tool and it works very well for most of our daily lives and many important things without thinking too much about it.

It's just very interesting to me to see how something that seems so solid, in some ways is much more fluid and fuzzy.

Thank you for keeping this thread going, really enjoyed discussing this.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#88
post #82

This ties in quite nicely with Karl Friston's Free Energy Principle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIu_dJGyIQI There are so many strands of neuroscience that show predictive coding now. There's a really nice example in the use of common vs unusual words in sentences. If you're using fMRI to scan someone while they read these two sentences: The jam on the motorway made everything slow. The jam on the motorway made e…

And that flash of activity is also the basis of humor. We find unexpected things like this funny, the reward that helps our brains to analyze and learn from the unexpected situation.

Not all humour, but Steven Wright certainly made an entire career out of sentences like this.

Re: Brains Speed Up Perception by Guessing What’s Next

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool! This sounds similar to koans: "a paradoxical anecdote or riddle, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and to provoke enlightenment." If you explore the meaning of language enough you'll realize it doesn't really make sense. Everything is based on context and assumptions that we take for granted when communicating. But if you dig deep enough (and it's really not that deep anywa…

I think you can make unambiguous sentences: "I walked one mile today." Unless context specifically indicates the very rare possibility that walked is personal shorthand for another activity, it's a pretty unambiguous statement.

Even statements like this can become ambiguous depending on the speaker. E.g. is the speaker speaking literally or metaphorically? Maybe the speaker feels like they walked a lot and so they chose a distance which represented a lot to them. Also, is one mile a lot or a little? Maybe its the opposite and they feel like they barely walked. Science makes every attempt to be unambiguous, people do not.
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