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Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

denverpost.com

31–40 of 151 posts

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#31

The key question I have about decriminalisation of marijuana and things like mushrooms and hopefully MDMA soon, is "will it reduce the number of people who try meth/ice?" My theory is that people become addicted to meth/ice because they want to get high, but "good" drugs like marijuana and MDMA/mushrooms are not legal/available/cheap, so people buy/try meth/ice. Put another way, my theory is that legalisation of "goo…

I suspect it's not as linear as that.

I never tried pot in my youth because it was "bad" - an illegal drug, like heroin or meth.

Conversely some people may try pot or mushrooms and assume that ALL drugs are not as dangerous as they've been lead to believe.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#32
post #3

Interesting, I saw an article claiming it narrowly failed a bit ago and was saddened. I have never tried them personally, but I suspect the threat of being arrested makes it harder to have a good "set and setting". I know that I never enjoyed cannabis until a trip to a place it was legal. Knowing that I was 100% ok to imbibe took away all my worries about detection, people knowing I was high, etc, and let me enjoy th…

Yes, it's really a completely different experience (in a better way) compared to how it was back in highschool sneaking around with little baggies of weed.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#33

Says something for the value of some sort of CI process. Here in Australia there are clear popular majorities for some form of loosening laws re marijuana, yet any politician who makes serious moves in that direction is crucified by the far right press. In effect, a foreigner (Rupert Murdoch) has a veto over Australian laws. Even with a CI though, magic mushrooms would be a bridge too far here I suspect. Imagine allo…

The far right has been a real blight on humanity in recent decades.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#34

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

It used to be that we recognized the fact that the feds had a very limited constitutional scope. That has been obliterated in the 20th century, with everything being justified under the necessary and proper clause and the commerce clause. A centralized bureaucracy has been gradually sapping the sovereignty of individuals, municipalities, and states; and replacing effective, local solutions with broad-brush national solutions that don't work for every one.

This also diminishes the ability of the individual to push for change: one man may convince enough people in a town to do something, but it is much harder for him to do so on a national level.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#35

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

Well, congress can pass a law (as long as it's constitutional)!

The law that governs mushrooms is the Controlled Substances Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act

This handles all sorts of controlled substances, like prescriptions, as well as illegal substances.

Now how does the federal government have control over this? It's probably related to how the FDA (Food and Drug Administration, who determine the different schedules of the substances) got started:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act

And that is under the interstate commerce clause of the constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

Also, since there are multiple international treaties involving drug control, that also puts it in the federal government's purview to regulate.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#36

The key question I have about decriminalisation of marijuana and things like mushrooms and hopefully MDMA soon, is "will it reduce the number of people who try meth/ice?" My theory is that people become addicted to meth/ice because they want to get high, but "good" drugs like marijuana and MDMA/mushrooms are not legal/available/cheap, so people buy/try meth/ice. Put another way, my theory is that legalisation of "goo…

I doubt there will ever be a clear answer on this. More likely, there will be a variety of factors.

That said, the "gateway drug" effect is real. It's been shown in many studies (although I'm not sure how many looked at shrooms as the gateway- usually it's weed). Likewise, we've probably all seen people drink ever-stronger drinks to get drunk/buzzed once their body because resistant to alcohol. Other drugs are no different, although I wager there are different types of people seeking different types of buzzes so I'm sure the distribution is not uniform.

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#37

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

Wickard v. Filburn, fucking up the separation of powers since 1942.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#38

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

In principle, the constitution outlines a federal government with specific, limited, enumerated powers. Over time, our interpretation of what those powers are and how they can be applied has changed a lot.

The 18th was considered to be needed because although Congress does have the power to regulate interstate commerce, obviously selling alcohol isn't really interstate commerce. You might be brewing your own beer, or buying whisky at a local bar that was distilled in the next city over. Since it's not interstate commerce, it's not one of the enumerated powers, so Congress can't do it without an ammendment.

No ammendment was considered to be needed for marijuana because, by the time the issue came up, our understanding of the commerce clause had changed. Today we would say that everything is interstate commerce. Even if you grow it yourself, you could choose to sell it across state lines, and your decision to grow versus buy was probably impacted by the price of buying it, which in turn depends on the price in other states. In Wickard v. Filburn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn), the Supreme Court found that growing wheat on your own land to feed to your own chickens was interstate commerce, because his decision to do so had an economic impact on interstate commerce. In Gonzales v. Raich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich) the court made it clear this applied even if there is no (legal) interstate commerce.

Under these precedents, the 18th amendment would not be necessary. Whether that suggests the poor benighted fools back then just didn't understand their own constitution, or whether modern jurisprudence has abandoned the true meaning of the text, or whether the constitution is a living document that may mean different things in different eras, even if the wording doesn't change is a matter of heated debate. :)

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#39

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

Ultimately? It comes down to interstate trafficking, and interstate commerce. edit someone above me hit it in way more detail, but yep...

Re: Denver decriminalizes psychedelic mushrooms

#40
post #38

I'm confused. If the federal government needed an amendment to criminalize alcohol how did it have the power to criminalize other drugs without an amendment?

In principle, the constitution outlines a federal government with specific, limited, enumerated powers. Over time, our interpretation of what those powers are and how they can be applied has changed a lot. The 18th was considered to be needed because although Congress does have the power to regulate interstate commerce, obviously selling alcohol isn't really interstate commerce. You might be brewing your own beer, or…

> the Supreme Court found that growing wheat on your own land to feed to your own chickens was interstate commerce

ONLY because it affected the sale of other grains... in theory, because instead of buying grain off the market to feed your chickens, you used your own grain, which not only deprived the market of your purchase, it also took grains away from the market also... since you didn't sell them.

there is no competition for cannabis or psilocybin.

i'd love to see this argued in court.

> or whether modern jurisprudence has abandoned the true meaning of the text

mhmmmmmmmmmmm

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