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Fasting Affects the Brain

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Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#111

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

beagle3 wrote: post #108
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially given the monumental failure of the "calories in calories out" model. I don't think that's the case at all - do we have examples where people, strictly observed didn't lose weight when eating under their caloric requirements? There absolutely is a pile of mitigating factors in how someone eats or lives, but that's like saying "exercise has been proven to not help people run marathons" just because most p…

There is a serious problem with counting both in and out calories, to the point that makes this useless in general - e.g. in serious studies they lock you in a room with controlled air and temperature in order to measure carbon out (or fit a respiration mask to do that). Anything less involved has error in the tens of percents. Furthermore - on phone now, can’t find ref - but mass general IIRC had a study where peopl…

You're not describing a failure of the calories in/out, you're describing a failure to measure the caloric requirements correctly. How do you find that? Eat less, measure your weight. Titrate as required. Worked for me, works for many.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#112

Post by coldtea »

mcfunk wrote: post #90
coldtea wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's also good evidence that people don't maintain that weight loss over time despite maintaining their lower calorie consumption. Because base metabolic rate is something that the body can adjust, just like if you had less money to pay for heat, you could just put less heat into the house. Well, it's not just some fixed calorie amount they need to take for an eternity. It's the amount that corresponds to their…

LOL ok, so "eat a diet and time your eating in a way that promotes healthy hormone balance and use of fat as energy" is a silver bullet but "use our magic equations based on state of the art info from 1958 to calculate your daily food needs and all your food and exercise as numbers and if your equation balances you'll lose weight" isn't. Sure.

>"eat a diet and time your eating in a way that promotes healthy hormone balance and use of fat as energy" is a silver bullet

If it promises you to lose weight without limiting your calorie intake (e.g. have your weight loss cake and eat it too), then yes.

>but "use our magic equations based on state of the art info from 1958 to calculate your daily food needs and all your food and exercise as numbers and if your equation balances you'll lose weight" isn't

The laws of thermodynamics don't change because we don't have good formulas to calculate the exact amount of calories a person has a basic metabolic rate just based on their weight and height...

Calories still matter, and you should still limit your intake -- whether you do it approximately by "state of the art info from 1958" or with modern medical tests and expensive equipment. Or you know, just with eating less that you normally do, even without counting calories (if you ate 1 steak per day, and you change it to 1/2 a steak, you're eating half as much calories, even if you don't know how many exactly). Skipping BS deserts will cut even more...

No great science required, millions of people have lost way by just eating less...

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#113

Post by coldtea »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #100
mcfunk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL ok, so "eat a diet and time your eating in a way that promotes healthy hormone balance and use of fat as energy" is a silver bullet but "use our magic equations based on state of the art info from 1958 to calculate your daily food needs and all your food and exercise as numbers and if your equation balances you'll lose weight" isn't. Sure.

You don't need any magic equations. It's really much more simple than that: if you're not losing weight, eat fewer calories until you are.

In fact, just weight yourself each day, and unless you weight less than the day before, eat very little. Repeat, and you'll shed weight (the so-called "graph/grid paper diet").

https://kottke.org/09/07/the-steve-ward-diet

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#114

Post by kazinator »

coldtea wrote: post #112
mcfunk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL ok, so "eat a diet and time your eating in a way that promotes healthy hormone balance and use of fat as energy" is a silver bullet but "use our magic equations based on state of the art info from 1958 to calculate your daily food needs and all your food and exercise as numbers and if your equation balances you'll lose weight" isn't. Sure.

> "eat a diet and time your eating in a way that promotes healthy hormone balance and use of fat as energy" is a silver bullet If it promises you to lose weight without limiting your calorie intake (e.g. have your weight loss cake and eat it too), then yes. > but "use our magic equations based on state of the art info from 1958 to calculate your daily food needs and all your food and exercise as numbers and if your e…

Some people don't want to lose "weight", but "fat" (often specifically "subcutaneous fat", often from some specific body area).

If you're already very fit and lean, but have some stubborn fat around the "love handle" area or elsewhere, "eat less" doesn't cut it any more. Sure you can reduce that area, but not completely, and while the rest of you turns into an ugly skeleton.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#115

Post by hudbuddy »

wastedhours wrote: post #25
hashberry wrote: post #4

> And that’s what we’re finding in lab animals — the brain and body actually perform better during fasting. In the case of the brain, cognitive function, learning, memory, and alertness are all increased by fasting. I find this to be true whenever I fast for 12+ hours. It feels like I'm on a drug. It's strange to realize how not eating can be good for you. Fun trivia: the longest a human went without food is 382 days…

> I find this to be true whenever I fast for 12+ hours. It feels like I'm on a drug. Totally this - when I was suffering with anorexia, in the early days where I was skipping meals all the time and burning fat, I felt amazing. Literally, "skipping down the streets because I had so much energy" amazing. Just remember to eat afterwards or you'll f* yourself up. Please.

I don't think "remembering to eat" is really in line with anorexia, if that's the parallel you're trying to draw.

I know you're joking, but it's really not a concern at all. A healthy mind will seek food after a fasting period.

I'd add a caution of my own, which is not to gorge yourself during this period. Your body should be given time to adjust back to a normal diet. Though this isn't much of a concern for brief fasts under the intermittent fasting regimen.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#116

Post by beagle3 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #111
beagle3 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a serious problem with counting both in and out calories, to the point that makes this useless in general - e.g. in serious studies they lock you in a room with controlled air and temperature in order to measure carbon out (or fit a respiration mask to do that). Anything less involved has error in the tens of percents. Furthermore - on phone now, can’t find ref - but mass general IIRC had a study where peopl…

You're not describing a failure of the calories in/out, you're describing a failure to measure the caloric requirements correctly. How do you find that? Eat less, measure your weight. Titrate as required. Worked for me, works for many.

Why do you call it ci/co then? Call it “weight in / weight out” - it better describes your system, in which calories (and their elusive measurement) is a red herring.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#117

Post by hnick »

ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

Do you do any exercise in the morning?

I naturally fell into this routine when I started working. A coffee around 9am then lunch around noon is plenty for me. I also never snack naturally (if it's there I can't stop myself, so I just don't take anything to my desk).

The only problem is lately I work from home and I can schedule some gym time into my day. A hard workout before that first meal is very hit or miss. Some days it's fine - some days I'll be light-headed and feel physically sick. It passes quickly though if I monitor my effort.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#118

Post by hnick »

magnamerc wrote: post #24
hashberry wrote: post #4

> And that’s what we’re finding in lab animals — the brain and body actually perform better during fasting. In the case of the brain, cognitive function, learning, memory, and alertness are all increased by fasting. I find this to be true whenever I fast for 12+ hours. It feels like I'm on a drug. It's strange to realize how not eating can be good for you. Fun trivia: the longest a human went without food is 382 days…

I've done 7 day water fasts (I try to do them quarterly, or bi-annually) and I find by day three I'm full of energy to the point where I have a hard time sleeping. I'm also way more productive during those 7 days. The only thing that tends to suffer is my weight lifting. I drop in strength a tiny bit, but not nearly as much as you'd expect. I also drop about 5-10 lbs in mass, with about half of that coming from water…

If it feels so good why don't you do it more often? Is it a mental block or are there solid reasons that it's too bad in excess? Do you just need some time to gain more fat stores?

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#119

Post by wastedhours »

hudbuddy wrote: post #115
wastedhours wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find this to be true whenever I fast for 12+ hours. It feels like I'm on a drug. Totally this - when I was suffering with anorexia, in the early days where I was skipping meals all the time and burning fat, I felt amazing. Literally, "skipping down the streets because I had so much energy" amazing. Just remember to eat afterwards or you'll f* yourself up. Please.

I don't think "remembering to eat" is really in line with anorexia, if that's the parallel you're trying to draw. I know you're joking, but it's really not a concern at all. A healthy mind will seek food after a fasting period. I'd add a caution of my own, which is not to gorge yourself during this period. Your body should be given time to adjust back to a normal diet. Though this isn't much of a concern for brief fa…

I was only being slightly flippant - one of the factors (aside from body image and weight loss) that tipped me over the edge was continuing to strive for the buzz from fasting long after it became healthy to do so.

From my lived experience I can tell you that if you're vulnerable from the other mental health signals of anorexia, the mental and physical benefits of fasting can be a trigger. So as simplistic as it is to say, break the fast when you intend to break it, and never just stretch it out or do it more regularly simply "because I feel good now".

Maintaining a healthy relationship with food is crucial in the early days. Otherwise you'll find yourself stood in the ready meal aisle of the supermarket for 30 minutes paralysed by a choice between a 300 and 400 calorie ready meal and being mentally unable to rationalise eating either.

TL;DR - set an defined end to your fast and stick the heck to it.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#120

Post by danbender »

ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

Here's my schedule. I do enjoy it a lot, and I feel like it's benefitting my metabolism, mood, and digestion:

1. I fast every week from Sunday after (a big) lunch (1 pm) to Monday lunch (noon).

2. Mon - Sat (i.e., 6x/week) I work out in the morning from 6-7 am so I do feel like I "need" a substantial breakfast to bulk a bit.

* Mon (fasting day): 30' of light cardio and a few minutes of cardio * Tue: Weights (upper body) * Wed: Weights (lower body) * Thu: Cardio + Yoga * Fri: Weights (upper body) * Sa: Weights (lower body) * Sun: Rest

3. I eat lunch at noon.

4. I don't eat dinner, but maybe a handful of nuts and dates.

Works well for me. :)

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