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What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

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Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#131
post #123

> When we did confront Sam—say, if we caught a glimpse of a vile meme on his phone—he assured us that it was meant to be funny and that we didn’t get it. It was either “post-ironic” or referenced multiple other events that created a maze-like series of in-jokes impossible for us to follow. I have made it clear to people I know that parroting vile positions online "because of humor" isn't really a clarification that y…

Peer influence is a real thing, parents aren't the only ones that get to shape their children, whether they like it or not.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#132

Why are Americans so obsessed with Nazis? I mean, I'm from Europe and I don't recall growing up worrying about everyone being a secret (or overt) Nazi, which, unless promptly punched in the face, would somehow take over. WWII and Nazis destroyed Europe. Are Europeans worried about Nazis? Not as far as I can tell. Yet all I see from American news is Nazis this Nazis that. Can someone explain?

I’m European and I’m very worried about Nazis.

In both Europe and America for what it’s worth.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#133
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it curious that you got downvoted. I'm European as well and I have had the same question for a while. We have far-right, nationalist parties and even more extreme fringe groups, but no threat of secret Nazis. Maybe it's because we had to deal with the consequences of the actual Nazis and they're not just comic book villains to us. Or because it's the last big war America fought in with a clear bad guy, whereas…

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. They never go anywhere interesting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#134

Why are Americans so obsessed with Nazis? I mean, I'm from Europe and I don't recall growing up worrying about everyone being a secret (or overt) Nazi, which, unless promptly punched in the face, would somehow take over. WWII and Nazis destroyed Europe. Are Europeans worried about Nazis? Not as far as I can tell. Yet all I see from American news is Nazis this Nazis that. Can someone explain?

What does flagged mean on HN? Not sure why my comment got down-voted so fast. It's a genuine question. If people can't agree on what Nazi means we should ban the word altogether since it has loaded political context and doesn't foster proper discussion. It appears to me that: 1) Some use Nazi to mean Nazi Party with proper historical context 2) Some use Nazi as tool to bludgeon anyone they don't like 3) Some use Nazi…

I think it’s fair to use the term about those who self-identify as “Nazi”, “Neo Nazi” or generally express the historic Nazi party / 3rd Reich as their main philosophical inspiration.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#135
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand why you're writing as if people who want to eliminate minorities are as bad as people who want to eliminate inequality. It's not relevant

Please do not take HN into generic ideological flamewars. They're boring, they spread, and we don't want them here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I don't want it either, that's why I posted since the person I replied to was the one bringing up communism out of no where

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#136
post #123

> When we did confront Sam—say, if we caught a glimpse of a vile meme on his phone—he assured us that it was meant to be funny and that we didn’t get it. It was either “post-ironic” or referenced multiple other events that created a maze-like series of in-jokes impossible for us to follow. I have made it clear to people I know that parroting vile positions online "because of humor" isn't really a clarification that y…

But laissez faire IS a cultural and ethical stance. “Live and let live” was a powerful cultural standard I remember from my childhood.

Deciding that these parents have “given up on responsibility” is a loaded accusation to make because their child has adopted political ideals you disagree with. Given the thoughtfulness of the piece i’d characterize it as unfair.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#137

Why are Americans so obsessed with Nazis? I mean, I'm from Europe and I don't recall growing up worrying about everyone being a secret (or overt) Nazi, which, unless promptly punched in the face, would somehow take over. WWII and Nazis destroyed Europe. Are Europeans worried about Nazis? Not as far as I can tell. Yet all I see from American news is Nazis this Nazis that. Can someone explain?

Paraphrasing, because I can't find the original quote: You can start a movement without a god, but not without a devil. It's mostly a boogeyman used to galvanize and justify another extremist group.

[deleted]

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#138

I was totally onboard with this article until the last sentence. I was enjoying this article as an exploration of emotional vulnerability, the connection between beliefs and belonging, the mixed blessing of internet anonimity. But if the (suspiciously articulate) kid goes from alt-right to antifa, I don't think that's any sort of progress to be applauded. I interpreted the article's point to be that alt-right is just…

> But if the (suspiciously articulate) kid goes from alt-right to antifa, I don't think that's any sort of progress to be applauded. I interpreted the article's point to be that alt-right is just emotionally hurt people venting online, and they do antics for attention and the media latches on to it to sell clicks, even if it's all BS.

I would point out that there is quite a difference between "anti-fa" and "counter-protester", just as there is between a conservative and being a white nationalist. One of those differences is the ability to see shades of grey in both "your side" and "the other side".

you say:

> I interpreted the article's point to be that alt-right is just emotionally hurt people venting online, and they do antics for attention and the media latches on to it to sell clicks, even if it's all BS.

I think it is less "emotionally hurt" and more "emotionally vulnerable and alienated". It also isn't all BS. There are nuggets of insight and truth buried in all the bile and lies.

the article says:

> Sam pledged fealty to the idea of men’s rights because, as he said, his former administrator had privileged girls’ words and experiences over boys’, and that’s how all of his troubles had started in the first place. I’d never in my life backed the “masculinist” cause or imagined that men needed protecting—yet I couldn’t help but agree with Sam’s analysis.

you say:

> But if that's the case, the best way to handle it is not to counter-protest, but just to hear out the fears and insecurities.

There is room for both and when done well, they are the same thing. A single brave counter protester helped open a young man's eyes with courage, integrity and compassion. Would a horde of black masked militant "anti-fa" protestors have had the same effect?

I strongly believe that using hate, rejection and isolation to fight against hate is counter-productive and destined to a a failure. Compassion and courage on the other hand...

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#139
post #46

Why are Americans so obsessed with Nazis? I mean, I'm from Europe and I don't recall growing up worrying about everyone being a secret (or overt) Nazi, which, unless promptly punched in the face, would somehow take over. WWII and Nazis destroyed Europe. Are Europeans worried about Nazis? Not as far as I can tell. Yet all I see from American news is Nazis this Nazis that. Can someone explain?

In most of Europe WW2 was just a terrible ordeal. In Germany it's a source of great shame. But the US? WW2 was the making of modern America. The US was catapulted into a world leader position, and got to feel like a badass hero doing it. And WW2 was the US's first major overseas conflict. Nazis are the archetypical "enemy without".

Great comment, but aren't you overlooking WWI? Phillipines? etc. There was even an anti-imperialist movement in the US before WWI.

Re: What happened after my 13-year-old son joined the alt-right

#140
post #58
post #13

> He would be offline for a month and would need other mods to cover for him. To ask for help, he had to out himself as a kid. I wonder to what extent the alt-right actually is a young teen movement, with adults mixed in (being the ones who show in person). Is there any at least semi-reliable data on this?

I've watched the so-called alt-right develop online over the past 2-3 decades. Usenet, Live Journal, Encyclopedia Dramatica, the chans, etc. At least at the start, it was mostly about trolling and lulz. The anger of TFWNG. But somehow it's been captured by the actual right wing. That's frightening. There's a lotta young male angst out there.

This is literally connected to Steve Bannon.
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