Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Fights Back

stratechery.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 475 posts

Re: Google Fights Back

#341

Post by busymom0 »

mkl wrote: post #330
busymom0 wrote: post #166

I think this is all just a PR stunt and Google's business model goes against user privacy. It's quite interesting the way people are more willing to trust Google than Facebook with their data though. I think this might come from Google actually offering more "useful/needed/can't live without" offerings vs facebook's more vanity based services. For example, Google takes your very privacy sensitive location data but al…

> For example, Google takes your very privacy sensitive location data but also returns you amazing mapping capabilities (google maps), transit information, nearby points of interests etc. I think it's more that it returns you what will keep you using the product, so they can sell more ads. Every time I open Google maps on mobile (to see how busy the traffic is, for example), I get a big useless "Explore nearby" windo…

That's accurate description of their business interests. They keep you hooked onto the product by offering you something which you most likely can't live without (Maps) and in return they also hope you will spend money on things they advertise. You as well as I won't ever click on those explore features / ads but I think there's enough users who do which makes it worthwhile for them to push it in our faces.

Re: Google Fights Back

#342

Post by lern_too_spel »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #20

If Google's possession of all this data makes many new good things possible, then sharing this data broadly and freely with others would make even more good things possible. Would Google share the data with other corporations so that they, too, can innovate and serve the consumer even better? I mean, if I buy into the notion of Google's benevolence, I should buy into that notion for other corporations, shouldn't I?

Isn't that the purpose of Google Takeout? If Google isn't providing the most value for your data, you can take it elsewhere.

That's how I use Internet services. If they don't do anything useful with my data, I don't use them. If they do something useful with my data, I use the one that does the most useful thing with my data. Thus, Gmail over other email services and Slack over whatever nonsense Google's messaging product managers are pushing today. And Apple services for nothing — collecting data and not being helpful with it is stupidity, not "privacy."

Re: Google Fights Back

#343

Post by joefkelley »

afiori wrote: post #185
joefkelley wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so you trust them to store the email, and parse it for something like spam detection, but not for some smarter feature? What specifically are you concerned about that is a problem with this and not with them having the email in the first place? Sounds like you shouldn't be using Gmail at all tbh.

> What specifically are you concerned about that is a problem with this and not with them having the email in the first place? That they use millions of computing-dollars to extract this information and store it. Supposedly spam detection does not need to understand the numbers in your bank emails. Supposedly it needs mostly information about you previous contacts and spammy patterns from the rest of the internet. Th…

I think I'm not understanding if you really answered the question you quoted - what specifically is the concern with having that information extracted? Is it just "it feels creepy"?

My point is that they already have the information, so any potential misuse or abuse is possible regardless of what types of parsing they're doing. It might just be inconvenient.

Re: Google Fights Back

#344

Post by pdimitar »

paavoova wrote: post #289
pdimitar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully switched from Android to iOS when iPhone X came out in November 2017. I realised in the next months that the perceived "freedom to tinker" on Android is something hugely overrated. I could achieve almost everything I wanted on my iPhone -- it just took a bit of time to find the proper apps. Later Apple added the Shortcuts which is a very solid automation app. Many Android users also lament the lack of a visib…

> and supposedly more "locked down") ecosystem Is it not? Your entire post only argues "It is, but here's why it works for me...". Removing the "freedom to tinker" is taking two steps back from what a computer should be. And smartphones are growing to be the primary computing device for many, so in my mind it's ridiculous to argue them being locked-down a merit. Relying on apps from a walled-garden app store is not a…

You hijack my rather focused and narrow comment and try and broaden it to a much wider set of problems. Not a respectful discussion technique, partner.

Of course we should have the right to repair. And of course many Apple users aren't okay with everything Apple does -- or you thought we were all mindless worshipping drones? No. We buy Apple because it makes the most sense for our needs. That's all there is to it.

But tell me, what choice is there out there if we want alternatives? No, really. Don't give me theoreticals and "if we could only do X...". We have Android and iOS. Nothing else. Sailfish OS is very niche and not everybody likes Sony's 2-3 devices that the OS supports. W10 Mobile is dead. Google and all Android OEMS actively sabotaged any and all open-source efforts -- mostly the ROM community -- mainly by voiding warranties if you touch a single byte in the bootloader. Even the rootless unlocking techniques are attacked on a regular basis. It's a furious battle and the OEMs won.

So don't tell me Android is much better than iOS because it's very obviously not. Historical factual records show that Google is very keen on the walled garden idea as well -- and I hope you are aware of the Google Play Services situation and that "the vanilla Android" (AOSP) gets less and less useful with each release and that more and more functionality is sucked into the proprietary, closed-source, binary blob that's Google Play Services.

---

Again, what other choice of mobile ecosystems do we have?

Android's supposed increased freedom is periodically strangled away (normal file system is soon going to be a thing of the past, for example). Looks like a pretty classical bait and switch, don't you think?

Oh, and the ability to side-load apps is only useful for the 0.2% of the populace that are tech-savvy users. For everybody else it's a huge security risk.

I understand you're not OK with what Apple does -- trust me, I hate their guts for some of their policies as well. We really don't have a choice nowadays though. Apple just seems like the lesser evil compared to Google.

Re: Google Fights Back

#345

Post by notI »

nybble41 wrote: post #282
mirkules wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unethical, or at the very least, unsettling the way it is presented. I am actually in awe at how many folks - especially HN folks - are ok with this. Years ago, I looked at my Google dashboard. They knew when i filed for taxes, how much was owed/reimbursed, my medical history. NONE of which I consented to Google using. Google is constantly eroding the expectation of privacy we have wrt to our emails (and probab…

> NONE of which I consented to Google using. And that is where you are wrong. You DID consent to this use of the information in your email when you signed up with Google as your email provider. They don't exactly make any secret of the fact that the emails in your account will be data-mined, both for the various assistant features they offer and for their own business purposes, including marketing. It is not Google's…

> You DID consent to this use of the information in your email when you signed up with Google as your email provider.

No, I (not the original poster) didn't. I signed up with a Gmail account years before any of this existed, and I never would have guessed they would do what the original poster is concerned about. At no point was I informed that this type of stuff would start happening. I figured it out by reading a lot of tech news that the average person does not. As such, I've moved away from Gmail, but there are probably millions of people who aren't OK with it, but don't know it's happening.

Re: Google Fights Back

#346

Post by pdimitar »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #269
pdimitar wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand (also upvoted). This is why I bought the 256GB versions (although your photo archives might be even bigger). Not sure what I can recommend but in any case I'd probably get a professional camera with 400GB SD card. :D I mean, if you guys like to make long videos during a time outside, why not? I agree Apple's proposition has cracks by the way. Not arguing that. As for W10 Mobile, yep -- I sold my Lumia 15…

large onboard storage is no replacement for being able to swap out cards. especially in the case of a phone failure to boot.

I only met techies who cared about continuing to use a phone if they could only boot from their SD card. Regular people don't know about the option.

So consider that this niche feature you find useful is of almost no consequence to anybody.

Additionally, iPhones and Samsung devices have really durable internal storage. Almost always the battery craps out first.

Re: Google Fights Back

#347

Post by LilBytes »

bashinator wrote: post #322
throwayEngineer wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Apple is less evil than Google? Remember that Apple has been cracked by the FBI, has proprietary connectors, and charges more than anyone. I couldn't disagree more. Apple is horrible to customers and developers.

So proprietary that I'm charging my Lenovo with an Apple power brick.

I was pretty surprised when I charged by Pixel with an Apple charger and the MacBook power brick. I knew they used USB C but wrongly assumed they'd not work.

Re: Google Fights Back

#348

Post by ansible »

pdimitar wrote: post #346
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

large onboard storage is no replacement for being able to swap out cards. especially in the case of a phone failure to boot.

I only met techies who cared about continuing to use a phone if they could only boot from their SD card. Regular people don't know about the option. So consider that this niche feature you find useful is of almost no consequence to anybody. Additionally, iPhones and Samsung devices have really durable internal storage. Almost always the battery craps out first.

It's not about trying to boot off the micro-SD card, it is being able to just pop out the card, and get all the data that was stored on it.

Re: Google Fights Back

#349

Post by kmlx »

infinisil wrote: post #110
kmlx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the feature of calling people automatically on google assistant? already available in 44 states, they’re bringing it to the web. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/goo... > Where is their self driving car too? Never complete, they always promise "it's the next year". there’s zero rush when there’s a chance of killing people. also this: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theverge.com/p…

> already available in 44 states I'm a bit disappointed by all big companies focusing on the states. Fact is, over 95% of people don't live in the US. Every time I see some fancy new technology, chances are I'll never get to use it in my country.

it’s all about the money...
Post reply on HN