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Google Fights Back

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Re: Google Fights Back

#311

Post by xvector »

aparc123 wrote: post #285
oflannabhra wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point the parent is making is that Apple doesn’t have your data in the first place, therefore if things go south, or they become nefarious, you’ll have to give them your data first.

Umm Multiple apple services collect data on your usage like Google does. They don't use this data for Ads Personalization but they do have the data.

> Umm Multiple apple services collect data on your usage like Google does. They don't use this data for Ads Personalization but they do have the data.

Provide a source. Apple is pretty transparent in its iCloud security overview[1] and iOS Privacy Whitepaper[2].

[1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

[2]: https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide....

Re: Google Fights Back

#312

Post by mark_l_watson »

For me, a timely discussion. Early this year I signed up for GSuite, copied stuff over from the free gmail account I have had for about 15 years, decided Cloud Search, etc. made the privacy hit worthwhile.

Well, I got fed up this week because release of new GSuite services lags the free offerings, and sometimes just aren't released. I lived with switching between free and paid accounts depending on what I was doing (made OK by using Firefox containers).

So, I switched my ProtonMail account to a paid for account, applied my custom domain, and flipped back to using Apple's Calendar, Siri, Maps, etc.

Literally Google lost a tiny bit of my business because their paid for product in some ways was worse than the free offerings.

I can see myself going back to Google paid services in the future but they have to up their game.

Re: Google Fights Back

#313

Post by mindslight »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #70
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

Google is already not Google. The "Don't Be Evil" corporation that valued open source rather than open-washing, that valued openstandards over "oops, we didn't mean to break that for you!" isn't here anymore. The company that bends over backwards, much farther than the law requires, to enable the surveillance state. I despise Apple. Especially on mobile. No SDCards, no headphone jack, walled garden app stores. Ugh ug…

> Google collects so much absurd amount of data - that all the Proton-mail, DuckduckGo, Wire/Signal, Firefox (loaded with adblocking and tracking plugins) apps in the world can't keep you totally from it as long as you're on Android. You disable things, you opt out of stuff and it just keeps on collecting anyways.

Do you really intend this statement in regards to pure AOSP/LineageOS (ie microg)?

Yes Android will always be a product of a surveillance company, rather than being focused on user-centric security. But I would think that microg should be enough to deprivilege Google's backdoors, and generally avoiding stuff from the Play (Yalp) store should shield you from the bulk of OS-facilitated commercial surveillance. If you have information to the contrary, please share!

Obviously given the choice I'd rather run an OS not designed by a surveillance company, but it's awfully hard to find a pocket-sized computer that can. I look forward to PostmarketOS, but I don't think we're anywhere close there.

Re: Google Fights Back

#314

Post by Nextgrid »

i_cant_speel wrote: post #129
Nextgrid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal action requires you to be able to prove they still hold the data. If they only use it for something where other factors affect the outcome (ad targeting, etc) they can still keep your data forever while hiding behind plausible deniability the other factors provide them (from outside, there’s no way to prove that a particular ad was served to you because of your data instead of another factor they use as input f…

There are a lot of mouths to keep shut on the inside. If anyone responsible for building the fake delete tool spoke out, Google would be in trouble.

If people couldn’t be unethical at scale then Facebook wouldn’t exist at all and yet it does, so I’m sure the same would be possible at Google.

Re: Google Fights Back

#315

Post by bduerst »

falcolas wrote: post #31
gambler wrote: post #21

>It all begins with our mission to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful, and today, our mission feels as relevant as ever. I said this 15 years ago and I will repeat it again. Google is like a man selling boats after a dam brake. They are profiting by managing the problem, not by fixing it. It is to their benefit if the problem actually gets worse. In other words, looking at…

Google is also holding the plunger that helped create the dam breakage. Not to mention the pry-bars being applied to any attempts to fix the dam. EDIT: For those who want to downvote, consider that the vast majority of Google's revenue comes from the use of your personal information to target you with ads, and that most of the advances in ad targeting using personal data have been made by Google.

> the vast majority of Google's revenue comes from the use of your personal information to target you with ads

The vast majority of the revenue comes from search ads, which are intent-based on the keywords in the query.

What you're talking about are display ads / adsense, which is not even close to the majority of their revenue.

Re: Google Fights Back

#316

Post by SquareWheel »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #284
umeshunni wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you lack basic understanding of how advertising works, the rest of your argument is moot.

Please enlighten me as to what I'm missing about how advertising works.

If you think Google "sells everyone's personal information to advertisers", then you are mistaken about their business model as umeshunni said.

Google themselves explain it clearly and openly.

https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/

Re: Google Fights Back

#318

Post by basetop »

_bxg1 wrote: post #294
basetop wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is a few years older, wiser and has far greater political clout. Being older, google went through what facebook is going through a few years ago. So they are much more savvy and also much more powerful ( politically at least ). I suspect Facebook is spenting their billions buying lobbyists, politicians and media/pr as we speak, just like google did. And microsoft did before them.

I think the bigger differentiator is Zuckerberg's ego. It's made him blind to his own flaws and mistakes and deaf to criticism, and he's maintained an iron grip on the company's steering wheel. I think he may run it into the ground. Google's direction is much less monarchical, and more willing to adapt.

Zuckerberg copied Page and Brin's share structure. Page and Brin control Google just as much as Zuckerburg controls Facebook - totally. As for ego, I don't know these people personally so I'll take your word for it.

Re: Google Fights Back

#319

Post by kbenson »

8ytecoder wrote: post #209
nirvdrum wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it falls under "freedom to tinker", but having a microSD slot saved my vacation once (well, the pictures of it anyway). We were out at a children's amusement park in the mountains with poor service, so just moving things to the cloud wasn't an option. Deleting apps from my phone to pick up space is of course an option, but also a silly one. Swapping out the microSD card, however, was simple and I just…

I use my DSLR to shoot pictures in RAW and still don't fill ~10GB of space in a full vacation. Granted different people have different needs - but anything over 32GB seems to work fine for me.

Maybe HD video is the major culprit. I imagine that might fill up space pretty quick on a vacation, depending on how someone likes to record.

Re: Google Fights Back

#320

Post by BeetleB »

blub wrote: post #183
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which they could only have gathered by parsing my emails from the bank. You say it as if it's a revelation or discovery, when Google is very upfront about surfacing relevant information and reminders based on your inbox. On more than one occasion, this feature has helped me take actions on pending work items like payments, renewals and so on. You don't want Google to show you ads, fair enough. You don't want Google…

Frankly, I'd reverse the question: why are you surprised that people are surprised? You think everybody has time to read the dozens of pages of legalese in Google's privacy policy, which anyway doesn't actually specify in which ways they abuse one's information? It also sounds like you need to organise your life a bit better. Google's notorious for their screw-ups and service closures, one day you might miss an impor…

>You think everybody has time to read the dozens of pages of legalese in Google's privacy policy, which anyway doesn't actually specify in which ways they abuse one's information?

No, but I do think that everyone who gets a service for free should by default assume they don't have much privacy. That is not a huge burden to assume.

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