Air Pollution in Our Homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#61

Post by jspash » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

salex89 wrote: post #59

graeme wrote: post #31

I got a laseregg 2, and highly recommend it or a similar monitor. It's been very eye opening to see how various scenarios affect air pollution: * frying indoors generally swiftly puts things in the unsafe range. Especially if it led to browning. * a neighbour's bbq would do the same if the window was open * idling truck on the street for construction? Unsafe range * surprisingly, the toaster would raise levels if it…

I've recently borrowed a similar device, and this one also measures formaldehyde. To be honest I'm quite anguished by it, because I can't find any indoors object with formaldehyde concentration less than 0.1ppm, which is the "safe" (by some legal standards) margin. Only outside or in a room with a wide open window it comes down under. It's even borderline higher in buildings not recently renovated. I've tried researc…

I'm now curious enough to want to get one of the meters. The reason being that everyone at work swears by the new wave of "mattress to your door" mattresses that you can buy online. Buy I insisted on getting a "real" mattress filled made of cotton, wood and springs. I'm still looked at like a caveman because I didn't go for the extruded oil hipster mattress and would like to be vindicated by evidence from an impartial electronic device. If only for the rights to say "i told you so".

Equally if my so-called 100% natural mattress is giving of fumes, I'd like to know about it! Because I'm certain the living room furniture is doing so.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#62

Post by graeme » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

salex89 wrote: post #59

graeme wrote: post #31

I got a laseregg 2, and highly recommend it or a similar monitor. It's been very eye opening to see how various scenarios affect air pollution: * frying indoors generally swiftly puts things in the unsafe range. Especially if it led to browning. * a neighbour's bbq would do the same if the window was open * idling truck on the street for construction? Unsafe range * surprisingly, the toaster would raise levels if it…

I've recently borrowed a similar device, and this one also measures formaldehyde. To be honest I'm quite anguished by it, because I can't find any indoors object with formaldehyde concentration less than 0.1ppm, which is the "safe" (by some legal standards) margin. Only outside or in a room with a wide open window it comes down under. It's even borderline higher in buildings not recently renovated. I've tried researc…

What device measures formaldehyde?

I've ordered an awair, I think it does vocs but not sure it does them in any specificity.

And I think the only real solution is venting. Open a window. Other than identifying the source and removing it of course. But in many places I think it's wall materials, furniture, etc

Dhh had a talk on indoor air quality you may find useful.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#63

Post by clairity » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

pdog wrote: post #42

If you're concerned about indoor pollution, I highly recommend house plants. In NASA research[1], common house plants were found to remove toxic agents such as benzene and formaldehyde from the air. Some of the best air purifying plants: Chlorophytum comosum (spider plant), Dracaena reflexa (song of India), Nephrolepis exaltata (Boston fern), Sansevieria trifasciata (snake plant), and Chamaedorea seifrizii (bamboo pa…

yes, i bought a spider plant and boston fern as they're easy to find. both grow like crazy in the sun (fern also needs humidity, so it's in the bathroom).

i'm not sure how well they filter the air, but it's nice to have green, living things around that are hard to kill. =)

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#64

Post by ip26 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

salex89 wrote: post #59

graeme wrote: post #31

I got a laseregg 2, and highly recommend it or a similar monitor. It's been very eye opening to see how various scenarios affect air pollution: * frying indoors generally swiftly puts things in the unsafe range. Especially if it led to browning. * a neighbour's bbq would do the same if the window was open * idling truck on the street for construction? Unsafe range * surprisingly, the toaster would raise levels if it…

I've recently borrowed a similar device, and this one also measures formaldehyde. To be honest I'm quite anguished by it, because I can't find any indoors object with formaldehyde concentration less than 0.1ppm, which is the "safe" (by some legal standards) margin. Only outside or in a room with a wide open window it comes down under. It's even borderline higher in buildings not recently renovated. I've tried researc…

Common sources of formaldehyde would be things like furniture, and another less obvious one would be air infiltration through your walls (picking the formaldehyde up from the engineered lumber) due to a depressurized home envelope (e.g. stack effect). When the house is depressurized enough to really draw in through the walls you should notice a puff of air when you crack a door.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#65

Post by code_duck » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

I have serious food allergies and celiac disease in addition to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients of cleaning products. I have problems entering are staying in a lot of environments, pretty much anywhere that I don’t have control over the air or access to fresh air.

The results on the toaster are not surprising. I’ve worried about toast smoke in coffee shops before because small amounts of gluten or allergens can make me sick.

It’s great that they are measuring concentrations of chemicals in the air related to cleaners. Something like someone spraying air freshener or mopping the floor with Pinesol makes me feel ill, and continued exposure will make me sneeze and my eyes turn red and so forth.

It’s amazing how casual people are about this. I sat down at the bar the other day and immediately the bartender started spraying Windex all over and wiping a wall. I had to rinse out my nose, and gained a headache. It definitely ruined the experience for me, but most people don’t think twice.

The possibility is raised that “The dominant source of VOCs in Los Angeles is now emissions from consumer products, including toiletries and cleaning fluids.“ Again, not a surprise. A statistic that quote to people is that about 5% of VOC emissions in the United States come from dryer vents, from mostly unnecessary chemicals in detergent and dryer sheets. Almost every single chemical product that is packaged for consumers and sold in plastic bottles at stores makes me very, very sick. Conditioners, shampoo, clothing detergent, pesticides, air freshener, candles soaps, fabric softener, floor cleaners, dish soap, glass cleaner. The annoying thing is that while the base formulation of these is bad enough, the part that is the worst for me is the completely unnecessary fragrances.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#66

Post by rtkwe » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

downtide wrote: post #17

I always wonder about small acrylic hairs and such that float about the house. In a bright room just flex your jumper, there's thousands of these weird impurities, and I can't imagine they can be filtered out easily before or after getting into the lungs. The biggest shocker is when you disturb loft insulation. They claim it's not terrible (specifically if undisturbed), but floating glass strands can't be all that ni…

It all depends on how well your body is able to clean them out and what it does if it remains. Asbestos isn't bad because it's a fiber it's bad because it is hard for your lungs to move and damages the interior.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#67

Post by swampthinker » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #56

martey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/03/indoor-p... Recently, Waring and his colleagues reanalyzed all 195 studies that have examined whether houseplants can filter the air. They found that some types of plants can remove higher amounts of VOCs than others. But once you factor in the effects of working in a large room, none of the plants are able to do much. Waring told me to imagine a small office,…

That is spot on. The only solution is to build houses with better materials that release less VOCs and/or use an air filter with a good activated carbon stage. Carpets have become very popular. But cheap ones release tons of VOCs due to fire retardants and anti-stain treatments. I've switched to a house built in the Scandinavian style, with oiled wooden floors and simple soap-treated furniture. Not only beautiful, bu…

Most modern European housing also has to abide by strict energy efficiency and air leakage standards, so they come with heat-recover air exchange systems.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#68

Post by clairity » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #31

I got a laseregg 2, and highly recommend it or a similar monitor. It's been very eye opening to see how various scenarios affect air pollution: * frying indoors generally swiftly puts things in the unsafe range. Especially if it led to browning. * a neighbour's bbq would do the same if the window was open * idling truck on the street for construction? Unsafe range * surprisingly, the toaster would raise levels if it…

i bought a wave-plus[0] on a whim, and it's also been eye-opening. it doesn't measure particulate matter directly, but has a VOC meter (and radon, which is their strength) that similarly spikes for all sorts of things, including closing the windows at night. it's battery-operated and connects to a phone app via bluetooth (which then can sync to their cloud dashboard if you choose).

i may buy a foobot[1] one day, as it was highly rated in recent studies on pm measurements, and has an api.

[0] https://www.airthings.com/wave-plus [1] https://foobot.io/

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#69

Post by clairity » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #65

I have serious food allergies and celiac disease in addition to allergies/sensitivities to ingredients of cleaning products. I have problems entering are staying in a lot of environments, pretty much anywhere that I don’t have control over the air or access to fresh air. The results on the toaster are not surprising. I’ve worried about toast smoke in coffee shops before because small amounts of gluten or allergens ca…

yes, i used to use "simple green" for cleaning because it was advertised as non-toxic, but the resultant sneezing and coughing made me move to even simpler cleaners like dish soap and baking soda.

Re: Air Pollution in Our Homes

#70

Post by rayiner » Wed, May 08, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #56

martey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/03/indoor-p... Recently, Waring and his colleagues reanalyzed all 195 studies that have examined whether houseplants can filter the air. They found that some types of plants can remove higher amounts of VOCs than others. But once you factor in the effects of working in a large room, none of the plants are able to do much. Waring told me to imagine a small office,…

That is spot on. The only solution is to build houses with better materials that release less VOCs and/or use an air filter with a good activated carbon stage. Carpets have become very popular. But cheap ones release tons of VOCs due to fire retardants and anti-stain treatments. I've switched to a house built in the Scandinavian style, with oiled wooden floors and simple soap-treated furniture. Not only beautiful, bu…

What is the health impact, in quantifiable terms of those "nasty VOCs?"