Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Fights Back

stratechery.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 475 posts

Re: Google Fights Back

#121

Post by TulliusCicero »

oflannabhra wrote: post #114
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

Indeed, the contract we sign is not “do I trust Google,” it is “do I trust Google in perpetuity.” I can think of many, many outcomes wherein Google’s collected data is more valuable for uses other than “helpful”.

Well, as of right now, you can choose to delete your data, so it's not necessarily perpetual.

Of course, absent something like GDPR, it's possible in the future Google could change their minds about that.

Re: Google Fights Back

#122

Post by pgeorgi »

everdev wrote: post #83
pgeorgi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And i don't believe for a second the data they're allowing you to "autodelete" genuinely gets deleted. It just gets removed from your view. While "deleted" might take a while (eventual consistency FTW), any company with a presence in the EU has a lot to lose if such a scheme (beyond what they declare, eg. "31 days to recover your account") ever sees the light of day.

True, but I doubt EU courts could take up a case involving non-EU consumers. So, even though Google compiles in Europe, they don't have to afford the same protection to non-EU users.

> involving non-EU consumers

GDPR covers any interaction of people or organizations in the EU.

So non-EU consumers are covered once they're visiting the EU (citizen of a member state or not), and potentially (untested, not spelled out explicitly) when they use a VPN with an endpoint in the EU (because they're then likely talking to data centers under the control of the European subsidiary).

> they don't have to afford the same protection to non-EU users

Given that "EU user" is murky like that, I'm not sure if any company goes through the trouble of differentiating which action happened from inside or outside the EU beyond raw GDPR blocking that refuse service entirely for accesses from within the EU.

Re: Google Fights Back

#123

Post by RandomBacon »

j05h wrote: post #96
loudtieblahblah wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Libre5/Purism is apps. A lot of the secure applications I use have a linux app of some sort (DEB, AppImage, Docker) but I fail to see how any of that is going to work on a phone. I certainly don't see how a docker container would be good for battery life on a phone either ProtonMail - for example - on Linux, requires a bridge application in order to talk to a IMAP capable email client. Etesync requir…

So much this. Without a ride share app (and a few others) I just can't see going to Librem 5 as much as I would like to.

My understanding is that you can run Android apps in Linux, but I've never tried it.

Re: Google Fights Back

#124

Post by mgleason_3 »

Dig1t wrote: post #97
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that stuff was all encrypted, and Apple couldn't see it?

It _is_ encrypted, Apple cannot see it. The parent comment is mistaken

Yea, it's interesting how many comments are flat out wrong

or can't seem to differentiate between what Google does now ...vs what might happen with Apple in the future.

Re: Google Fights Back

#125

Post by jammygit »

pgeorgi wrote: post #76
Apocryphon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the Librem 5?

It still reports your movements to your cell provider. Get rid of cell phones if you're worried about privacy.

That is like saying that 'unless its 100% perfect, I may as well send everything to Google and the ad-verse'

People can't simply get rid of their cell phones. At minimum, I need one for work.

Re: Google Fights Back

#126

Post by TulliusCicero »

clairity wrote: post #73
areoform wrote: post #7

Google owns my soul. Their boxes know when I sleep, when I wake, how much I exercise, what I listen to, my innermost thoughts, my chats with loved ones, what I watched on Netflix last night, what my company does, the flu I have at the moment, what the hypochondriac in me looks up in the middle of the night, what I buy, whom I call, what I spend money on, where I spend it... I nominally pay for these services, but I s…

> "I nominally pay for these services..." you give them all that valuable personal and private data and then also pay them? why are you so resigned to this? the tradeoff for knowing everything about you gives you what, a few less taps on your phone? people ignored or minimized it then, but their direction was abundantly clear by 2004 or so: search -> adwords -> adsense -> gmail ---> all-your-data-everywhere (gmail se…

Is it really that hard to understand? What's the concrete harm so far?

I've been using Google for a couple decades, and I can't really articulate a specific way that I've been harmed. Yes, I realize that there's the potential for harm from a leak or something like that, but it's hardly surprising that the abstract notion of possible harm isn't super compelling to the average user when they're currently getting useful services for "free".

Re: Google Fights Back

#127

Post by pdimitar »

nirvdrum wrote: post #115
pdimitar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully switched from Android to iOS when iPhone X came out in November 2017. I realised in the next months that the perceived "freedom to tinker" on Android is something hugely overrated. I could achieve almost everything I wanted on my iPhone -- it just took a bit of time to find the proper apps. Later Apple added the Shortcuts which is a very solid automation app. Many Android users also lament the lack of a visib…

I don't know if it falls under "freedom to tinker", but having a microSD slot saved my vacation once (well, the pictures of it anyway). We were out at a children's amusement park in the mountains with poor service, so just moving things to the cloud wasn't an option. Deleting apps from my phone to pick up space is of course an option, but also a silly one. Swapping out the microSD card, however, was simple and I just…

I understand (also upvoted).

This is why I bought the 256GB versions (although your photo archives might be even bigger).

Not sure what I can recommend but in any case I'd probably get a professional camera with 400GB SD card. :D I mean, if you guys like to make long videos during a time outside, why not?

I agree Apple's proposition has cracks by the way. Not arguing that.

As for W10 Mobile, yep -- I sold my Lumia 1520 the summer of 2017 and my heart is still broken. :( This system had so much potential! And I have never found a phone whose form factor and feel to the touch that I like so much as the Lumia 1520 and the Lumia 950 XL.

Re: Google Fights Back

#128

Post by pgeorgi »

pdimitar wrote: post #82
pgeorgi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And i don't believe for a second the data they're allowing you to "autodelete" genuinely gets deleted. It just gets removed from your view. While "deleted" might take a while (eventual consistency FTW), any company with a presence in the EU has a lot to lose if such a scheme (beyond what they declare, eg. "31 days to recover your account") ever sees the light of day.

You mean the fines that the board of directors writes off as a cost of business and they never change policy due to them? Those fines?

Not changing policy means escalating fines (those 4% of global revenue maximum are nothing to sneeze at, and so far compliance was the cheaper route) but also, at some point, the inability to operate in the EU.

Even if a company only does the bare minimum required under GDPR, total deletion of data on request is part of that.

Re: Google Fights Back

#129

Post by i_cant_speel »

Nextgrid wrote: post #91
pgeorgi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And i don't believe for a second the data they're allowing you to "autodelete" genuinely gets deleted. It just gets removed from your view. While "deleted" might take a while (eventual consistency FTW), any company with a presence in the EU has a lot to lose if such a scheme (beyond what they declare, eg. "31 days to recover your account") ever sees the light of day.

Legal action requires you to be able to prove they still hold the data. If they only use it for something where other factors affect the outcome (ad targeting, etc) they can still keep your data forever while hiding behind plausible deniability the other factors provide them (from outside, there’s no way to prove that a particular ad was served to you because of your data instead of another factor they use as input f…

There are a lot of mouths to keep shut on the inside. If anyone responsible for building the fake delete tool spoke out, Google would be in trouble.

Re: Google Fights Back

#130

Post by pdimitar »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #101
pdimitar wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully switched from Android to iOS when iPhone X came out in November 2017. I realised in the next months that the perceived "freedom to tinker" on Android is something hugely overrated. I could achieve almost everything I wanted on my iPhone -- it just took a bit of time to find the proper apps. Later Apple added the Shortcuts which is a very solid automation app. Many Android users also lament the lack of a visib…

>Many Android users also lament the lack of a visible filesystem but that's a huge plus in my eyes That's awful in my eyes. What's more is my inability to browse that file system without a third party application when i want to simply move files to my computer. The only reason I'm even contemplating the move to iOS, is b/c I have a android based, digital audio player that has 2 SDcard slots that I keep disconnected f…

Not judging or criticising but you seem to have arrived at the right time to setup a home VPN with a [ten] gigabit grade router + switch, and put a NAS behind them. (And can then use them anywhere from the outside world as well.)

As mentioned in a sibling comment, Apple's proposition has cracks and that's unequivocally true. Your usage sounds like an outlier case.

In my case, I have tons and TONS of videos (800GB at this point) so I am pondering the home NAS + 10Gbps router + 10Gbps switch setup. And yeah, I can't use Apple's iCloud for my videos.

Post reply on HN