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'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

theguardian.com

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#21
post #2

Every time I read about what China is doing to Uighurs, my heart sinks. Putting people in camps, monitoring their every move, coating it all with bureaucracy and lies. This is what genocide looks like. And nobody has the courage to stand up to China. Not even to publicly denounce them. Isn't this what the UN is for? To impose economic sanctions on flagrant human rights abusers? (Please, no whataboutism replies, what…

It's telling that you're getting downvoted for posting literal facts to HN

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#22
post #20
post #18

How would the Uighurs run a country where they were the majority? Sadly, we have two governments, one(the Uighurs) believes in a warlike state where religion is the authority and another warlike one (China) where the secular state is the authority and China is larger. These states that blend state and religious power all seem headed towards religious oligopolies - Iran comes to mind. What happens when the states of E…

Attaching agreed-upon bad things like authoritarianism and terrorism and oppression onto arbitrary symbols like Islam and secularism is fallacious. Those superficial symbols make for terrible indicators of actual evil, and rhetoric like the above only serves to increase the injustice done to innocent people. See the recent Christchurch attack.

Isn't Islam the only religion that says that all other religions are false?

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#23

The other day the Guardian was inviting us to feel terrible about historic Uighur mosques being bulldozed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/07/bulldo... ...so I went and did a little research. It turns out that one of these mosques is a shrine to a certain Imam Asim, a charming fellow that played an important part in the purposeful destruction in the 10/11th centuries of the Buddhist Khotan kingdom…

So then we should bulldoze all Christian churches, too?

Numbers 31 "The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them...7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man...9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar...14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#24
post #11
post #2

Every time I read about what China is doing to Uighurs, my heart sinks. Putting people in camps, monitoring their every move, coating it all with bureaucracy and lies. This is what genocide looks like. And nobody has the courage to stand up to China. Not even to publicly denounce them. Isn't this what the UN is for? To impose economic sanctions on flagrant human rights abusers? (Please, no whataboutism replies, what…

The UN has done nothing about atrocities in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and North Korea, among so many more, so don't expect any change here.

I specifically said, no whataboutism please.

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attaching agreed-upon bad things like authoritarianism and terrorism and oppression onto arbitrary symbols like Islam and secularism is fallacious. Those superficial symbols make for terrible indicators of actual evil, and rhetoric like the above only serves to increase the injustice done to innocent people. See the recent Christchurch attack.

Isn't Islam the only religion that says that all other religions are false?

Upvoted assuming that was /s

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#26

The other day the Guardian was inviting us to feel terrible about historic Uighur mosques being bulldozed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/07/bulldo... ...so I went and did a little research. It turns out that one of these mosques is a shrine to a certain Imam Asim, a charming fellow that played an important part in the purposeful destruction in the 10/11th centuries of the Buddhist Khotan kingdom…

Compare and contrast with the Guardian's coverage of Confederate statues, which memorialize atrocities as well.

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#27
post #23

The other day the Guardian was inviting us to feel terrible about historic Uighur mosques being bulldozed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/07/bulldo... ...so I went and did a little research. It turns out that one of these mosques is a shrine to a certain Imam Asim, a charming fellow that played an important part in the purposeful destruction in the 10/11th centuries of the Buddhist Khotan kingdom…

So then we should bulldoze all Christian churches, too? Numbers 31 "The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them...7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every…

So you take the Bible to be a literal historical account?

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#28
post #23

The other day the Guardian was inviting us to feel terrible about historic Uighur mosques being bulldozed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/07/bulldo... ...so I went and did a little research. It turns out that one of these mosques is a shrine to a certain Imam Asim, a charming fellow that played an important part in the purposeful destruction in the 10/11th centuries of the Buddhist Khotan kingdom…

So then we should bulldoze all Christian churches, too? Numbers 31 "The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them...7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every…

The Chinese government is destroying Christian churches too.

"Over the past year, local governments have shut hundreds of unofficial congregations or “house churches” that operate outside the government-approved church network, including Early Rain. A statement signed by 500 house church leaders in November says authorities have removed crosses from buildings, forced churches to hang the Chinese flag and sing patriotic songs, and barred minors from attending."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/china-christia...

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#29
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN has done nothing about atrocities in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and North Korea, among so many more, so don't expect any change here.

I specifically said, no whataboutism please.

That’s not the sort of whataboutism you called out in your comment, because the parent isn’t justifying Chinese actions, but pointing out that the U.N. hasn’t acted in similar cases and so it’s not unreasonable to think that they wouldn’t act here.

Re: 'If you enter a camp, you never come out': inside China's war on Islam

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then we should bulldoze all Christian churches, too? Numbers 31 "The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” 3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them...7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every…

So you take the Bible to be a literal historical account?

That's irrelevant. What matters is this assumption that every detail of a person's religious tradition directly and literally translates into an indicator of their ideals and behavior. In reality the number of people who take their texts that literally is small, both in Islam and Christianity. And those are the circles that terrorists come from. And their evil has nothing to do with the name of their religion.
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