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Fasting Affects the Brain

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Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#61

Post by riazrizvi »

UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #38
ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was an advertising slogan for Kellogg's.

So then it is the most important meal of the day, for Kellogg’s shareholders.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#62

Post by mcfunk »

wyldfire wrote: post #27
mcfunk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be interested to see where the scientific consensus is in 10 years. I think the evidence is very much on the side of the hormonal theory of obesity and fasting, especially given the monumental failure of the "calories in calories out" model.

> especially given the monumental failure of the "calories in calories out" model. Can you explain this in more detail? CICO seems like it might oversimplify things but it always seemed like a really sane basis for helping shape your diet. If you need to lose weight, you should plan meals to create a calorie deficit. But yes, I would not be surprised to learn that fasting on day X and consuming double your normal cal…

This is a good place to start: https://idmprogram.com/how-do-we-gain-weight-calories-part-1...

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#63

Post by ravenstine »

UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #38
ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was an advertising slogan for Kellogg's.

The saddest part of that is that I heard that phrase not through overt advertising but from school.

I remember a handful of occasions in elementary school where they had someone come in and teach kids about nutrition, and the one lady told us that breakfast is the most important meal because we need to start off our day with "lots of energy". These lessons included the food pyramid, which is bad science to start with.

As kids, we were being fed corporate propaganda through government sanctioned education, and sadly I don't think the students or any of the adults at the time realized it.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#64

Post by mcfunk »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #52
qntty wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article makes a case against a calorie-centric approach to dieting. It boils down to something like Michael Pollan's "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants." A guy (who has since become an expert in public health) wasn't able to control his weight using standard calorie-counting techniques and had a lot of success changing his diet to "high quality" (as opposed to "highly processed") food. The article isn't supe…

Eh. the articles argument appears to be that even though nutritionists, physicists, and dieters all agree that eating fewer calories than you expend causes weight loss, it isn't easy for a variety of factors. No shit. The thing is, it is the simplest expression of what needs to happen, and there is no getting around it. I was once well north of the weight of the subject in the article and have since shed about half o…

There's also good evidence that people don't maintain that weight loss over time despite maintaining their lower calorie consumption. Because base metabolic rate is something that the body can adjust, just like if you had less money to pay for heat, you could just put less heat into the house.

The role of hormones (especially insulin) in regulating fat storage and whether stored fat is available to the body as energy is better understood now, and much has been documented about how high insulin combined with low calories over time results in a lowering of the metabolic rate (resulting in stalling weight loss and then weight gain) rather than sustainable weight loss.

Also "it's nice to believe you don't have to suffer to reach your goals" is a silly and moralistic thing to say. But it typifies the american "scientific understanding" of weight loss. Fat is immoral, suffering is virtue, therefore in order to lose your immoral fat you must suffer.

Just look at all the massive success of those in the IF and keto community in living joyful lives, not deprived, losing fat etc. etc. And then look at all the people for whom calorie counting has completely failed. The information is out there (shruggie)

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#65

Post by pilsetnieks »

tw1010 wrote: post #46
UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was an advertising slogan for Kellogg's.

That sounds plausible (and interesting) but do you have a source for it?

No, that's false. It was actually General Foods for Grape Nuts: https://priceonomics.com/how-breakfast-became-a-thing/

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#66

Post by Reedx »

tw1010 wrote: post #46
UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was an advertising slogan for Kellogg's.

That sounds plausible (and interesting) but do you have a source for it?

https://youtu.be/9Ffceu672c4?t=173

Dr. Kellogg and his brother had a business creating various supposed health products and Corn Flakes was part of that.

In 1917 a magazine called Good Health, edited by Dr. Kellogg, wrote "in many ways breakfast is the most important meal of the day". That seems to be the origin and cereal makers ran with it.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#67

Post by jawilson2 »

drekembemutombo wrote: post #47
ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

If it works for you, sure. Interesting, I often eat a big but healthy breakfast and then eat nothing for the rest of the day, and that works really well for me.

From what I've read in some research, this actually might be slightly more optimal, in terms of timing metabolism and circadian rhythms, etc. However, socially, skipping breakfast is easier, because the alternative (in order to get 16+ hours of fasting in) is to skip dinner, which might be weird for family or friends. The tradeoff is probably minor.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#68

Post by ravenstine »

ergothus wrote: post #42
ravenstine wrote: post #34

I sometimes intermittently fast for 24 hour periods, but recently I've switched to skipping breakfast, which effectively works out to be a 17 hour fast for me if I eat dinner at 6pm and have lunch at 12pm. Everyone says it's the most important meal of the day, but I haven't found convincing evidence of this(especially that which isn't sponsored by grain and sugar producers), and not having a huge insulin spike at the…

> Pro-breakfast proponents say that eating breakfast results in eating less throughout the day, but I can't say this has been true at all for myself. Another sample size of 1, but I had the same experience. Eating or not eating breakfast has no apparent impact on my hunger at lunchtime. (Not eating dinner the night before, however, does, so I'm hardly immune to hunger. I wish) > The only negative effect I'm having is…

> This symptom I do not share, however.

Yeah, it's funny because I eat plenty of eggs and fat, which have constituents used by the body to produce hormones like testosterone. If anything, I'd expect the opposite effect but I haven't read any literature on the effects it can have on libido, so I'm not sure what's typical.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#69

Post by jawilson2 »

throwaway123x2 wrote: post #13
Zaak wrote: post #11

Fasting is a periodic religious observance for me. The main effect I have noticed is increased irritability, but then I've never done cognitive tests while fasting.

That might be from the caffeine withdrawals. I'm trying it wihtout caffeine at all this year, and it's been great.

Or, a carb-heavy diet. When I fast while doing keto, it's almost not noticeable, and I'll often just forget to eat and suddenly realize I haven't eaten in a day or more. If I've cheated on carbs and try to jump back into fasting, I'm ready to commit murder after 10 hours.

Re: Fasting Affects the Brain

#70

Post by Bartweiss »

tw1010 wrote: post #46
UpperBodyEimi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was an advertising slogan for Kellogg's.

That sounds plausible (and interesting) but do you have a source for it?

I can't find a clear source for Kellogg's coining that phrase, but they definitely use "The best way to start the day" as a slogan. For instance, this Kellogg promotional flyer: https://www.kelloggcompany.com/content/dam/kellogg-company/f...

Page three is what you want, and it's worth looking at for a masterclass in garbage science.

The big header gives us "A cereal breakfast. Why it’s the best way to start the day." The subhead asserts "Experts worldwide agree: Breakfast is the most important meal of the day", which is somewhere between disputable and a lie. Below that is a list of wild claims like "People who regularly eat cereal tend to be less stressed, less anxious and are less likely to be depressed."

Wow! Let's see the evidence! Well, about half the studies listed appear to be directly funded by Kelloggs. Many that weren't are about breakfast in general, so "eat cereal" is a misrepresentation of "compared to skipping breakfast and eating unhealthy snacks". And they're full of hilariously poor controls - there's some fumbling with "difficulty sleeping" and a "negative job score", but ultimately the study can't discern "the benefits of eating breakfast" from "the harms of working the night shift" or "leaving at 5AM in a rush".

It's actually fascinating just how many bold, impressive claims Kelloggs manages to make without lying while relying on laughably thin evidence.

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