China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#31

Post by steve76 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

Markets and population are not one to one. One very dedicated, idealistic and pious person can do more today than the rest of 7 billion people combined. What's desperately needed is to elevate the debate and put all issues on the table:

China's leaders can misspeak. Why should they tell others how to speak? China's leaders cannot disarm their enemies. Why should they try to disarm yours? If people could go to China or Russia without having their businesses raided by the police just for being good at what they do and employing people, who cares who's rich or poor?

Go high enough on the wealth ladder, and it's almost comical about how real wealth lives. Super frugal, much simpler than the trap of material wealth and celebrity everybody presumes.

Until you find and build paradise, you have very little credibility in telling other people what to do from far far away.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#32

Post by baybal2 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

gdsdfe wrote: post #21

baybal2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So basically China's stance is, we cannot change our laws so our bad trading practices must remain in place? China's, or better said Liu He's, stance is "we will not do anything if it has chance to blew into Xi Jinping's face" Xi brandished how he tames "capitalist tigers" by wholly appropriating the credit for the trade deal. Now he is being made to look stupid with a single twiter post. It is likely he will not t…

I feel like none knows how to deal with the Chinese, there's a cultural gap that the US and Europe are not accounting for, the Chinese care a lot about saving face and status

To me it feels like Trump did it more or less intentionally. He seem to know that behind a stone faced facade, Xi is an anxious and insecure person — the same 7th grader he was when his family was purged.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#33

Post by youarewrongstfu » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

rrggrr wrote: post #27

awinder wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

theres a lot of reasons for someone to look at both what and how trump is approaching this, and rationally come away less-than-enthused: 1. Poor execution & personnel at odds with each other leaking play-by-play details has led to a lot of market fluctuation and difficulty for the market to price in the "real world". Anyone exposed to this gets a first hand look at the monetary cost of this. 2. Real impacts of the ta…

The facts say differently: GDP growing around 3%. US net exports up about $55b. Unemployment 50 year low. Minority unemployment record low. Non-farm payrolls up by about 3%. Business confidence (Fed Ind Businesses) highest in 45 years. (sources) https://www.whitehouse.gov/trump-administration-accomplishme... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/how-trump-has-set-economic-g...

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Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#34

Post by youarewrongstfu » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

whytaka wrote: post #4

verroq wrote: post #3

I don't understand the hate Trump gets for doing what needs to be done. All these issues esp. theft of intellectual property, IP transfer, currency manipulation are much more important in the long term than some tarrifs. One shitpost tweet crashed SZSC by 7%, most of China couldn't even read it. Trump is in a position of power at least with this negotiation. China deserves the pain train for backpedalling.

This is the one thing where I find myself supporting the policies of the Trump administration.

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Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#35

Post by keanebean86 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #10

verroq wrote: post #3

I don't understand the hate Trump gets for doing what needs to be done. All these issues esp. theft of intellectual property, IP transfer, currency manipulation are much more important in the long term than some tarrifs. One shitpost tweet crashed SZSC by 7%, most of China couldn't even read it. Trump is in a position of power at least with this negotiation. China deserves the pain train for backpedalling.

Perhaps you can understand it better if you ask yourself if he and his administration is actually capable of achieving anything. Did his tweetbluster and love for Kim denuclearize the Korean Peninsula? Did his wall or child caging stop immigration? Did his repeal of parts of the ACA give people "the best health coverage"? Did his Muslim travel ban stop terrorism and make America safer? Did Jared bring peace to the mi…

Some of the stuff he talks about are legitimate issues that need to be fixed. He's just so superficial with his changes that none of the problems get fixed. In some cases he just exacerbates the problem.

I personally feel people dismiss these issues because trump talks about fixing them. They seem to think admitting a problem trump is talking about is real means they support trump. That's absolutely crazy. Then again Republicans did the same with Obama though.

It's almost taboo to think the world should not be looked at either from a left or right perspective. Truth is what the party tells you.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#36

Post by youarewrongstfu » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #15

scarface74 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trade war isn't helping anyone. It's costing US consumers, companies, farmers and the stock market. Just a quick search, I couldn't find any mainstream, usually Republican leaning economists, magazines, or newspapers that said it was a good idea.

It isn’t costing consumers much. I run a company that was affected by the tariffs. If we had kept manufacturing in China, cost of goods sold (COGS) would have gone up by 25%. But COGS are only 50% of the price customers pay for our products. So the price increase to our customers would have only been 12.5%. But we didn’t keep our manufacturing in China, we moved it to Taiwan and Vietnam. As a result, our COGS went up…

In other words the tariffs, like all tariffs, did absolutely nothing but harm the country putting them in place.

Brilliant.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#37

Post by zaroth » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #10

verroq wrote: post #3

I don't understand the hate Trump gets for doing what needs to be done. All these issues esp. theft of intellectual property, IP transfer, currency manipulation are much more important in the long term than some tarrifs. One shitpost tweet crashed SZSC by 7%, most of China couldn't even read it. Trump is in a position of power at least with this negotiation. China deserves the pain train for backpedalling.

Perhaps you can understand it better if you ask yourself if he and his administration is actually capable of achieving anything. Did his tweetbluster and love for Kim denuclearize the Korean Peninsula? Did his wall or child caging stop immigration? Did his repeal of parts of the ACA give people "the best health coverage"? Did his Muslim travel ban stop terrorism and make America safer? Did Jared bring peace to the mi…

Please try not to flamebait, particularly with political topics, on HN.

Aside from the actual topic at hand — China — the big pillars of Economic growth, immigration, healthcare, North Korea, the Middle East, national security, ISIS, and NATO are all massive issues that US continues to struggle with and has for decades (well, ISIS is a recent spinoff of an older problem).

Trump has set a great direction in Iraq/Afghanistan (get the hell out). Trump has worked marvels with Kim (when was the last nuclear test?). Trump made great strides in recognizing the truth on the growth with the embassy move to Jerusalem and judging by the latest hystrionics by Hamas might be zeroing in on the greatest deal of his life in the Middle East. Trumps purpose with the travel ban was forcing better intelligence/screening of incoming passengers and we’ve got the data sharing he wanted. NATO countries are paying more than ever. The ISIS caliphate is defeated.

Immigration reform and healthcare he has fought hard battles and wants to keep fighting. There’s recent progress on the great DACA bargain. Trump wants to get true historic immigration reform on that list, and he continues to push for a real Republican answer to healthcare while chipping away at the margins for things like drug pricing.

Oh yeah, and the economy has literally never been better, and never been better for everyone across the income scale. He fought the Fed hard to ensure real wages would rise for the low and middle class when they tried to squash it with rate hikes.

Trumps strategy with China is sound (despite the talking heads all saying tariffs don’t work) and he had the leverage going into this negotiation to get important concessions.

All this, while the whole time being called a Russian traitor from across the aisle. Crazy times we live in.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#38

Post by dilyevsky » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #22

Leary wrote: post #11

The most recent tweets by Trump regarding this: "The reason for the China pullback & attempted renegotiation of the Trade Deal is the sincere HOPE that they will be able to “negotiate” with Joe Biden or one of the very weak Democrats, and thereby continue to ripoff the United States (($500 Billion a year)) for years to come... Guess what, that’s not going to happen! China has just informed us that they (Vice-Premier)…

There are very real problems with how China treats foreign companies (intellectual theft, requirements to partner with Chinese companies and many more). I'm happy they get addressed. However, Trump completely misrepresents the problem and the impact of tariffs. The negotiations clearly are tackling the right issues, yet here he is talking about trade deficits as some kind of theft and tariffs as a straight up win lik…

“Trade deficit” is what his voter base “understands” and it sounds scary so it would make sense to peddle this to them even though it has nothing to do with real issues. But then again it’s trump so who the fuck knows why he does it...

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#39

Post by youarewrongstfu » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

HillaryBriss wrote: post #9

scarface74 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trade war isn't helping anyone. It's costing US consumers, companies, farmers and the stock market. Just a quick search, I couldn't find any mainstream, usually Republican leaning economists, magazines, or newspapers that said it was a good idea.

there are some narrow interests that favor Trump tariffs. e.g. the United Steelworkers Union: "China ... dumps its excess aluminum and steel on the world market at super-discounted prices. The United States, in conjunction with European allies and others, has repeatedly over the past decade negotiated with China to stop defying the rules it agreed to abide by when it gained entrance to the World Trade Organization in…

So the steelworkers, whose income relies on American production of steel, is butthurt because someone else makes steel.

Again.

Still.

This is not new. The steelworkers have been bitching about everyone and everything basically since Japan started making cars that weren't shit and releasing them in the US market.

Adapt or die.

Re: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal – sources

#40

Post by spectramax » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

rrggrr wrote: post #17

I suspect Xi wants this dispute to continue for internal Chinese reasons. The tariffs impact different sectors and regions in China differently. It may be continued tariffs are reducing overcapacity in a manner that allows Xi to save face internally. It could be the tarrifs are breaking the back of powerful exporting provinces (eg. Jiagnsu) and helping Xi consolidate power. It may also be the case that things need to…

I don’t know how by cutting down exports Xi plans to consolidate power? Could you please expand on the mechanism by which this could happen? Tariffs are breaking backs of exporting provinces, may be they could be ill informed and Chinese propaganda can spin this to blame US.