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Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

nytimes.com

61–70 of 327 posts

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#61

My kid will get nosebleeds if the air is too dry, so I run humidifiers. Ventilating means I lose my hard won humid air. Any solutions?

I have been looking into some whole home humidifiers myself, because it gets so dry in the winter where I am at. Not sure they are an option for you, but they hook right into the HVAC. That way ventilation would help rather than hurt.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#62

My kid will get nosebleeds if the air is too dry, so I run humidifiers. Ventilating means I lose my hard won humid air. Any solutions?

Small turnover gives large wins.

There are heat-exchanging air exchangers for high-efficiency construction. I'm not aware of (and don't find) humidity exchanges, though they may exist.

Hung dampened linens (towels, bedsheets) can make a big difference. Many HVAC systems offer high-efficiency humidifiers, and the old standbye of having a kettle on the stove can work (with an energy cost).

Humidity in general is fairly cheaply acquired. Dehumidifying moist air takes much more energy.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

Helmets? That's interesting; I tend to open the visor a bit when at a stop, it gets really warm in there really fast. I know you shouldn't try to take off a helmet in case of an accident, but is opening the visor at least okay?

Unless it is terribly cold, I always run a small crack at low speeds. My helmet has a notch that is just a half inch of crack. At high speeds the vents pull air through. It is funny because I never thought about CO2, just that it is too freaking hot.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#64

My kid will get nosebleeds if the air is too dry, so I run humidifiers. Ventilating means I lose my hard won humid air. Any solutions?

Steam heat in the winter and no A/C in the summer. It cuts down on dust too.

(yes I know this is not a practical solution)

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#65
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does air recirculation with increasing co2 compare to having to breath/smell car exhaust, cigarette smoke, etc through vents? I started doing recirculation as my default years ago due to that.

Isn't that just... what outside smells like? What do you do about smelling people's breath in the air (??) whenever you exit your car?

A side street would see a few cars per minute. Compare that to a freeway where you are continuously surrounded by multiple cars doing high rpm.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#66
post #22

No. I wrote up the computations explaining why. See http://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/co2_closed_rooms/

> At 5 millibars (5,000 ppm), you would start breathing at a 10% elevated rate, which you probably wouldn’t notice. Wouldn't you? Won't you subconsciously notice and want to end the meeting faster? Imagine breathing at an elevated rate in a crowded room that lacks proper ventilation. There's more than co2 coming from the human body. People will begin sweating, farting, etc., and fill the air with all kinds of polluta…

>Imagine breathing at an elevated rate in a crowded room that lacks proper ventilation. There's more than co2 coming from the human body. People will begin sweating, farting, etc., and fill the air with all kinds of pollutants. The computers, screens, dry erase board, etc. will make the situation even worst.

Your description makes me think of the opening scene from Falling Down.[0]

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piPzExBdfIg

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#67
post #22

No. I wrote up the computations explaining why. See http://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/co2_closed_rooms/

> At 5 millibars (5,000 ppm), you would start breathing at a 10% elevated rate, which you probably wouldn’t notice. Wouldn't you? Won't you subconsciously notice and want to end the meeting faster? Imagine breathing at an elevated rate in a crowded room that lacks proper ventilation. There's more than co2 coming from the human body. People will begin sweating, farting, etc., and fill the air with all kinds of polluta…

You're referring to a psychological effect, he's referring to an autonomic. It's the same way the you don't tend to notice your heart rate increase and decrease as you move around unless it's major.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#68
I remember in high school, there were certain classes in which I always got really tired. Eventually I realized they were the classes with the most students stuffed in the smallest rooms. The worst offender, for example, was health class (ironic in hindsight, I suppose), which took the place of phys. ed. for one quarter and therefore had to fit an entire gym worth of students into a single classroom.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#69

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

Exhaled breath is about 3.8% or 38000ppm so (20000) that's really high! I'm not too surprised since the turnover rate through a few small holes with a relatively large volume is bad. Reducing the facial volume would help a lot as each breath would expel more CO2 as a fractional percentage.

It seems that any sort of face covering or even significant exercise could raise your ambient CO2 level well above 1000ppm.

I'm a bit surprised that levels 38-60x below our exhalation % (and it's not lack of O2, because you use up less than 10%/breath) has such a significant effect. The one thing that may drive it is that the efficiency of lung ab/desorption goes roughly as the square of concentration so a 2% change in CO2 concentration might be enough to have an effect on O2 and blood pH.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#70
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is average outdoor air optimal?

I'd be surprised if it was, especially given that we evolved in a C02 concentration between 180 and 280 ppm, as opposed to the 410 ppm outside today.

We are ending up being to stupid to solve climate issues
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