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Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#11

Post by jadams5 »

gugagore wrote: post #6
Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

Could you recommend a CO2 monitor? How did you decide to purchase the model that you own?

I got this model several months back and have been really happy with it: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FYWU2IS/

I got it to monitor CO2 levels in a house without central air. It's pretty amazing how quickly it rises without the air on or a window open. If the air in a room feels "stuffy", it's probably over 1000 ppm.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#12

Post by 83457 »

Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

How does air recirculation with increasing co2 compare to having to breath/smell car exhaust, cigarette smoke, etc through vents? I started doing recirculation as my default years ago due to that.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#14

Post by blattimwind »

Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

School classrooms (20-30 people, 1-2 hours, closed windows, no ventilation) are probably worse than any conference room.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#15

Post by brixon »

83457 wrote: post #12
Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

How does air recirculation with increasing co2 compare to having to breath/smell car exhaust, cigarette smoke, etc through vents? I started doing recirculation as my default years ago due to that.

You don't need fresh on all the time, but for long trips I will switch to fresh for at least five minutes each hour. You just want to cycle the air in the cabin for less re-breathed air.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#16

Post by Filligree »

k__ wrote: post #10
Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

How many plants are needed to counter this?

Far too many to be plausible. You'd need to live in a terrarium. Which would certainly be nice, but it's a lot of maintenance...

There are plants that do pretty well at air filtering, though not as well as a HEPA filter... but for CO2, they won't absorb more than they can use. This means you need dozens, and also that you'd need grow lights to keep them photosynthesizing as fast as possible.

I've seen an office that was built like that, and it was actually a very nice experience. The owner enjoys spending as hour gardening each evening, though, which is important.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#17

Post by groby_b »

Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

800ppm is a fairly typical value for indoor CO2 and not really that shocking.

Fun fact: We've known since ~1850[1] that we should probably stay below 1000ppm for indoors, but we based the measure back then on body odor :) (It still bugs me that oddly cognitive impairment starts at the same point a body-odor measure from the 1800s put CO2 levels, and I keep wondering if we're seeing confirmation bias in action)

In general, where you end up is based on airflow. To get below 800ppm, you'll probably need to increase outside ventilation to >10dm^3/s.

[1] von Pettenkofer, "Ueber den Luftwechsel in Wohngebaeuden"

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#19

Post by Klathmon »

Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC.

Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in the mornings now.

Another surprising place that really high CO2 concentrations show up? The inside of full face motorcycle helmets when at a stop. IIRC they quickly reach as high as 20,000ppm! There is also some speculation that full-face motorcycle helmets that stay closed in an accident are more dangerous in some ways, as the high CO2 concentrations in the helmet can be really dangerous to an unconscious person's brain function.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#20

Post by sevensor »

blattimwind wrote: post #14
Mistletoe wrote: post #5

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

School classrooms (20-30 people, 1-2 hours, closed windows, no ventilation) are probably worse than any conference room.

Apparently there was a fad for building schools with no windows. There's a 70s era middle school in the (U.S.) town where I live; it won a design award for its total lack of fenestration. It was supposed to reduce distraction or something.
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