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Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

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Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#21

Post by Leace »

vitoreiji wrote: post #16
BossingAround wrote: post #11

It seems to me that a lot of people seem to think prefering Kotlin signifies a move away from Java. But I simply don't understand how using a JVM language signifies a move away from Java. After all, it all gets compiled into the same bytecode, and Kotlin heavily depends on the Java ecosystem. If Oracle is 'poisoning Java', Kotlin's not the answer. Surely, it'd be a language totally independent of Oracle, wouldn't it?

I bet they have plans to make a different VM for Kotlin and move away from JVM, should be coming in the next couple of years.

Yes, especially that Kotlin already targets various architectures.

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#22

Post by untog »

vitoreiji wrote: post #16
BossingAround wrote: post #11

It seems to me that a lot of people seem to think prefering Kotlin signifies a move away from Java. But I simply don't understand how using a JVM language signifies a move away from Java. After all, it all gets compiled into the same bytecode, and Kotlin heavily depends on the Java ecosystem. If Oracle is 'poisoning Java', Kotlin's not the answer. Surely, it'd be a language totally independent of Oracle, wouldn't it?

I bet they have plans to make a different VM for Kotlin and move away from JVM, should be coming in the next couple of years.

Kotlin already has one in the form of Kotlin Native. So far no involvement from Google on that front, but things could change.

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#23

Post by gridlockd »

amanzi wrote: post #13
nnq wrote: post #9

...great, Kotlin for Android, Dart for Flutter, on the ML side they're starting to adopt Swift, for networking infra code Go. What the heck is with this "tower of babel"?! Are other people not bothered by the overlapping features of all these languages? At this point I thin most would prefer a slightly-frankensteinian monster-language that you'd get by taking either Kotlin or Swift and bolting all the other features…

> ...great, Kotlin for Android, Dart for Flutter, on the ML side they're starting to adopt Swift, for networking infra code Go. Don't forget HTML+JS+CSS for websites and PWAs. And given that web technologies work across all platforms, perhaps that's the area for developers to keep focusing on.

> And given that web technologies work across all platforms...

This is a myth. Web technology is more "Write Once, Debug Everywhere(tm)" than Java ever was. The real value is in deployment, bypassing all the platform bullshit. It's still a severely limited platform and will probably remain so, because Apple has no interest in giving up its walled garden.

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#24

Post by JulianMorrison »

vitoreiji wrote: post #16
BossingAround wrote: post #11

It seems to me that a lot of people seem to think prefering Kotlin signifies a move away from Java. But I simply don't understand how using a JVM language signifies a move away from Java. After all, it all gets compiled into the same bytecode, and Kotlin heavily depends on the Java ecosystem. If Oracle is 'poisoning Java', Kotlin's not the answer. Surely, it'd be a language totally independent of Oracle, wouldn't it?

I bet they have plans to make a different VM for Kotlin and move away from JVM, should be coming in the next couple of years.

Kotlin already has a native compiler (targeting iOS and so forth).

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#26

Post by liopleurodon »

benjymo wrote: post #17
pjmlp wrote: post #7

Good that they cleared that out. Lets see what is the roadmap to use Java 9+ libraries in Android, or if they are supposed to be all rewritten in Kotlin. Secondly, will they also replace NDK with Kotlin/Native? Given that several APIs are NDK only, and naturally should be accessible to the prefered language as well, without manual boilerplate.

I don't think they should be rewritten in Kotlin. That would force everyone to use Kotlin with minimal benefits for Kotlin users.

Might have less to do with users and more to do with Oracle v Google

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#27

Post by PunchTornado »

ForHackernews wrote: post #19
vitoreiji wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet they have plans to make a different VM for Kotlin and move away from JVM, should be coming in the next couple of years.

Why bother? Being on the JVM has many advantages and building some new VM (and compiler?) would be extra hassle and expense for not much gain.

moving away from oracle is `not much gain`?

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#28

Post by liopleurodon »

ForHackernews wrote: post #19
vitoreiji wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet they have plans to make a different VM for Kotlin and move away from JVM, should be coming in the next couple of years.

Why bother? Being on the JVM has many advantages and building some new VM (and compiler?) would be extra hassle and expense for not much gain.

Oracle v Google

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#29

Post by pjmlp »

benjymo wrote: post #17
pjmlp wrote: post #7

Good that they cleared that out. Lets see what is the roadmap to use Java 9+ libraries in Android, or if they are supposed to be all rewritten in Kotlin. Secondly, will they also replace NDK with Kotlin/Native? Given that several APIs are NDK only, and naturally should be accessible to the prefered language as well, without manual boilerplate.

I don't think they should be rewritten in Kotlin. That would force everyone to use Kotlin with minimal benefits for Kotlin users.

Java 9+ is not supported on Android, so if you want to link to a Java 9+ library for an Android application, your only path is to rewrite it in Kotlin, as it is clear from this announcement that Google won't bother to add the required machinery to ART to support Java 9+ class files and new libraries.

Naturally the other alternative would be to downgrade the code back to Java 8, but then the question remains for how long they will keep it around.

Re: Kotlin is now Google’s preferred language for Android app development

#30

Post by pjmlp »

liopleurodon wrote: post #26
benjymo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they should be rewritten in Kotlin. That would force everyone to use Kotlin with minimal benefits for Kotlin users.

Might have less to do with users and more to do with Oracle v Google

I am fine with Google having their own ".NET", at least it isn't Google J++ anylonger.
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