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Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

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Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#361

Post by TeMPOraL »

dotBen wrote: post #29
gergles wrote: post #22

> I’m a Works with Nest developer. Will I be able to access and control Nest devices moving forward? > No. The Actions on Google Smart Home platform does not provide open API access to Nest devices, so it cannot be used to access and control Nest devices. Instead, managing and controlling Google Home, Nest, and thousands of third-party smart home devices is done through the Google Home app and the Google Assistant. W…

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

Here's a note, straight from quotes file, I took around the original Twitter fiasco, and have since reposted or mentioned on HN a few times on occasions similar to this:

* Sovereign from Mass Effect on using someone else's technology:

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." Strangely, it seems to describe recent (2012/2013) situation with API of Twitter perfectly.

--

Twitter did that twice[0] already, but it's a lesson people have to learn and relearn repeatedly: this is what happens when you build a business entirely around someone else's platform.

--

[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10427530

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#362

Post by mcv »

pugworthy wrote: post #68
richev wrote: post #21

So my Nest app[1] that has 1800+ registered users will stop working in August. :'( [1] https://richev.me/nest

Look not to be blunt, but 1800 users? Why should they care? I'm being a devils advocate, but ... if you were at Google and a person making large business decisions, why would you care about 1800 users?

> Why should they care?

Because they're still users, and that's only for this app; there are a lot more Nest users than that. How Google treats them is a sign of how they may treat other users in the future. If Google make it a habit to screw users, users will not trust Google in the future. Losing the trust of your users is more expensive than some companies seem to realise.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#363

Post by TeMPOraL »

pm90 wrote: post #196
_jal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

> If you build on someone else's platform, But isn't that the height of specialization? What does a platform mean anyways if its only used for one thing and not by others? It it somewhat unfortunate that things like this make it abundantly clear that such a reality is not possible.

Platform is nothing but a sales&marketing word. It means whatever the owner wants it to.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#364

Post by markvdb »

david_ar wrote: post #360
URSpider94 wrote: post #214

For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It would be as if they announced tomorrow that the only way to read GMail is in Chrome browser or on an Android phone.

They kind of did do that with Offline Gmail, though.

Gmail is still imap readable.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#365

Post by tiredyam »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #356
PrimeDirective wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried finding information on this, but couldn't. Could you provide links?

sorry, I thought I was clear in suggesting it as a law - although realistically in a lot of EU countries you could make the case and get it returned. For example I'm in Denmark and we have a consumer ombudsmand were you can make complaints about violations of your rights as a consumer https://www.consumerombudsman.dk/about-us/ (it talks about marketing but I the Nest was marketed to have functionality it no longer ha…

This law would end up hurting the upstarts. Alternatives should be made and the consumer should be picking winners with their dollar.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#366

Post by Natanael_L »

McDev wrote: post #330
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #313

EU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.

I'm interested in reading more about this, could someone provide more information on this law?

It's basically derived from the requirement that product works as advertised + legal guarantee that the product remain working as advertised.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#367

Post by tpxl »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #313

EU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.

IIRC there is a law where you can return items for a full refund or exchange if the product was "not fit for purpose", which includes shenanigans like these.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#368

Post by jeltz »

conradfr wrote: post #352
eyeareque wrote: post #275

How soon until google gets sued for the bait and switch? This reminds me of the Sony PlayStation Linux lawsuit: https://segmentnext.com/2016/06/21/sony-linux-lawsuit-ends-s...

Realistically is there any lawsuit that can make any dent in Google's profits?

While they are not civil lawsuits, EU's anti-competition fines certainly can make a dent in any company's profits since they are based on a percentage of global turnover.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#369

Post by TeMPOraL »

cortesoft wrote: post #146
Robotbeat wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true? I’ve used open source printers from Lulzbot and others, and I haven’t had this experience. I think the moral of the story is to not put stuff on some closed platform in the cloud, not that you shouldn’t use company-provided hardware.

I think his point was that it is hard to keep a company going making just the hardware. The margins are low, and customers only have to pay you once, to get the hardware. It is hard to make a lasting business off that, which is why everyone wants to do subscription services.

It used to be the only way to make business in not so long past. People made money selling products just fine.

Maybe it's because people trying to get rich quick playing the VC lottery are sucking the oxygen out for people who want to just do a honest to God, "payment in exchange for providing value" type of business.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#370

Post by tiredyam »

mcv wrote: post #342
mc32 wrote: post #66

I used to be a fan of Google. They were the good ones, the open ones. Ha! I’ve feel like they played the long sucker game. How times have changed. Even Android feels like a ruse. And Chrome. And maps. The last thing will be search. At some point it’ll be curated for my own good. To be fair, Everyone has to make a living, but be honest don’t take people for suckers of make them into suckers.

I agree. I used to be a fan. They were explicitly not evil, gave lots of open source stuff away for free, made lots of other free services. Turns out they were just making us dependent on them, and now that they've got us, they do whatever they want. We need to make ourselves less dependent on Google. Move away from GMail, use Firefox, DuckDuckGo, OSM, federated social networks, etc. I don't have a good replacement f…

god I tried. DuckDuckGo just does not work as well as it needs to. It gets touted as a turn key google search replacement but it’s simply not. 4 times today, I searched 5+ different ways for something after poor results, each thing took one search to find on google. Granted, maybe I am just more familiar with how to get the most out of googles search, maybe it has such a vast profile on me that it understands what I want i am looking for. Either way, i am pretty close to caving and it’s sad
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