Flutter sucks because of f nested hell
Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
181–190 of 467 posts
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#182Can someone from the Google team comment on what's going on - https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/kotlin-is-now-googles-pref...
>Android development will become increasingly Kotlin-first,” Google writes in today’s announcement
https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/google-launches-jetpack-co...
>Google today announced the first preview of Jetpack Compose, a new open-source UI toolkit for Kotlin developers who want to use a reactive programming model similar to React Native and Vue.js.
This is massively confusing. Do we invest in Kotlin ...or do we invest in Dart ? Remember I'm talking about developing nations like India - where startups like ours invest in training college graduates . These guys can't afford 10$ courses on udacity and Coursera.
But even if it was not India, having this parallel signalling for Android based startups is very confusing. Atleast Apple was very clear about Swift .
Where will Android be in 2 years : Dart or Kotlin ?
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fellow Googler here. I think it’s best to report those numbers with the appropriate SI prefix: 4.414 MB and 8.572 MB. Reporting numbers as “X thousand kilobytes” makes it harder to grok the real scale.
Pardon me making a joke at your expense cornstalks, but... Is this what a culture that AB tests 34 shades of blue looks like? I think we can handle the conversion here in the HN comment section !
fwiw, when i saw the prefix and no commas i subconsciously assumed it was under 1000KB and read it wrong, until that comment made me take another look.
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#184It doesn't work on Edge nice job Google.
https://imgur.com/a/QhIzx4e
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#185Has Flutter solved its footprint-bloat problem? The internet is littered with reports of 10-100MB+ .ipa and .apk binaries coming out of simple Flutter apps for iOS + Android. Google states they can't imagine the footprint ever dropping as low as 1MB. [1] On Web, 1MB of base runtime is a complete showstopper. Embedded applications may suffer similarly. Does today's announcement mean Google has figured out how to fix t…
> This is possibly a very dark direction for the Web Yes, that imagined dark direction for the web is indeed very dark. Call it too big to ship reasonably, but Chrome didn't ship an Angular player or Polymer player, so I don't see what suggests they'd start now.
Didn't they ship a Dart VM?
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a user, I care quite a bit. As a developer, though, I get paid to tell people that their software doesn’t follow platform UI conventions and I run their code through mental checklists (“does the title animate properly during a controller pop, does this custom view break accessibility”) so I think it’s pretty obvious that I have a very specific slant on this issue. Keeping that in mind, I think that many users do c…
None of my mobile phone apps look like any of my other mobile phone apps. I've never really considered it to be a problem. The thing that looks like a play button makes the media start, the square makes the media stop. The speech bubble looking thing makes some sort of conversation happen, and the photo looking icon either opens a camera or lets me add a photo from my camera roll. That last one gets a bit annoying. B…
When apps look and behave the same, it allows users to bring knowledge from one app to another, gradually developing into expertise.
The Mac has a profound depth of power-user acceleration: keyboard navigation, keyboard shortcuts, modifier keys, drag and drop, context menus, type-select, arrow keys, etc. Learning this stuff isn't wasted because it applies to every app (or at least that's the vision).
Controls look consistent, which signals to the user that their knowledge applies here.
Mobile obviously needs different UI paradigms, and yet it doesn't really have much of anything. There's still no good convention for basic operations like Undo. And part of the reason is that every app has to be a snowflake.
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. Typical users aren't going to complain "hey this app doesn't feel native" or even know what that means! However, they will likely find it harder to use without an explanation why. If most of the apps a user uses follow the guidelines of Android/iOS, and they are primarily a user of one platform, and your app doesn't follow either, it seems obvious that they won't be able to use their built-up knowledge of ho…
> If most of the apps a user uses follow the guidelines of Android/iOS, and they are primarily a user of one platform, and your app doesn't follow either, it seems obvious that they won't be able to use their built-up knowledge of how apps work in general to navigate your app. I just checked my 8 most commonly used apps, exclusing Chrome / Gmail, FWIW I am using Android. 1. Spotify - Doesn't follow any sort of UI sta…
> 1. Spotify - Doesn't follow any sort of UI standards. Also randomly decides to go into drive mode.
And lesson #1 in why to always follow some/any kind of UI standard.. Luckily their algorithms/service are decent.
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#188I love the idea of Flutter for mobile and desktop but I'm very skeptical about the web implementation. They will need to reimplement tons of stuff that are already included in the browsers and ship all that code with the application.
I look at it differently. When someone compiles a game to webassembly it's seen as an accomplishment, right? It doesn't mean you would normally write web apps this way, particularly if you're targeting consumers internationally and need web pages to load fast. But being able to make a desktop or mobile app work in a browser should be useful, particularly for businesses. Sometimes you're not targeting the whole world…
> When someone compiles a game to webassembly it's seen as an accomplishment, right?
Yes, but browsers do not have game engine APIs. They do however have a layout engine, text editing and rendering, accessibility features, and a very long etc. Basically anything you need to make an app with text, images, buttons, etc.
Don't me wrong, I'm sure Flutter for the web is a technical marvel.
> Some markets are more sensitive to download size than others and you need to understand your users to know what you can get away with.
So you are arguing that Flutter for the web is a nice bonus you get but not really intended to be a general use case web dev framework.
If this is the case, it seems the Flutter team is missing a huge opportunity by not being a truly universal UI toolkit which it could be if it used the DOM instead of reimplementing everything.
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#189Can someone from the Google team comment on what's going on - https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/kotlin-is-now-googles-pref... > Android development will become increasingly Kotlin-first,” Google writes in today’s announcement https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/google-launches-jetpack-co... > Google today announced the first preview of Jetpack Compose, a new open-source UI toolkit for Kotlin developers who want to use…
There's been activity porting the Android Java components to Fuschia.
I have no inside information (not a Googler) but that leads me to believe that if Fuschia becomes the next mobile OS from Google it will support both.
So same goes for Android I would assume. Why does an OS need to have a single stack? You can write desktop apps in a zillion different languages and Frameworks after all.
Re: Flutter: a Portable UI Framework for Mobile, Web, Embedded, and Desktop
#190Can someone from the Google team comment on what's going on - https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/kotlin-is-now-googles-pref... > Android development will become increasingly Kotlin-first,” Google writes in today’s announcement https://techcrunch.com/2019/05/07/google-launches-jetpack-co... > Google today announced the first preview of Jetpack Compose, a new open-source UI toolkit for Kotlin developers who want to use…
There's a chance that in the future, Android will just be a legacy environment within Fuchsia. Fuchsia's main UI framework will be Flutter.