A Psychedelic Renaissance • Hacker News Board

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#91

Post by netcan » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #90

netcan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a Hegelian-esque pendulum to it. Discretionary uses of mind-altering drugs, especially those that have been prominent in youth culture, pop culture and party culture face massive resistance. Look how long cannabis is taking to reach legalization. Look at the barriers to medical scientists who want to study psychedelics. In that sort of environment, it's near inevitable that the remaining "torch bearer…

What is "spiritual use"?

Depends on your definition of spiritual, I suppose.

I didn't mean anything too semantically specific. I meant the religious/cultural practices using psychodelic which still exist and the new practices similar to them.

I'm not a hard lines type, so I'll concede a ton of grey area between spiritual, therapeutic and recreational... if that's what you're driving at.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#92

Post by tomhoward » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #90

netcan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a Hegelian-esque pendulum to it. Discretionary uses of mind-altering drugs, especially those that have been prominent in youth culture, pop culture and party culture face massive resistance. Look how long cannabis is taking to reach legalization. Look at the barriers to medical scientists who want to study psychedelics. In that sort of environment, it's near inevitable that the remaining "torch bearer…

What is "spiritual use"?

A form of practice undertaken by people for their own reasons in accordance with their own beliefs or philosophies. It's no big deal.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#93

Post by monktastic1 » Tue, May 07, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

mapcars wrote: post #67

fartcannon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried it? Perhaps there words aren't doing justice to the experience and what you're writing off as the same as some other act might be missing the target. For example, having never tried meditation nor psychedelics, both yours and ops experiences seem barely believable. But I haven't tried either so I wouldn't go out and say that.

Yes, I'm saying this only because last 1.5 years I'm doing my kriya practice which includes meditation, breathing technic and few other things and it has been working wonderfully - since I "got it" I never had a single bad day. I am comparing this to having occasional bursts of depression, loneliness, self-doubt for a few years before. I did not try strong psychedelics but the problem with them as with any kind of dr…

As a long-time meditator and psychedelic user, I disagree. People can get attached to beautiful states in both cases, and both can trigger permanent insights. I haven't felt the need to use psychedelics in years, but the realizations are still there, as strong as any I've had from meditation.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#94

Post by nabnob » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

fartcannon wrote: post #58

mapcars wrote: post #51

From my experience, everything mentioned in the article can be "treated" with meditation. I say treated in quotes because all this is self-caused and treatment is only to realize that it's actually me is the one who is causing stress and anxiety to myself. Once this is realized these things disappear in a matter of days. Meditation is long-established, safe, legal, available to everyone regardless of any status or co…

Have you tried it? Perhaps there words aren't doing justice to the experience and what you're writing off as the same as some other act might be missing the target. For example, having never tried meditation nor psychedelics, both yours and ops experiences seem barely believable. But I haven't tried either so I wouldn't go out and say that.

They're tools to achieve altered states of consciousness that can help you change the way you view yourself or your experiences. I meditate daily and have also used psychedelics recreationally in the past (this was a couple years ago, before I really took meditation seriously). I have problems with paranoia and OCD, and meditation has been incredibly helpful for learning healthier ways to deal with my emotions, along with improving my ability to focus in general.

With that said, I'm skeptical of the way the article approaches psychedelics as something of a cure-all for mental health problems, rather than a way to change your perspective. The Silicon Valley techie approach seems very narcissitic and performative, and I'm not sure that mass production by pharmaceutical companies will be a good thing.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#95

Post by mapcars » Tue, May 07, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

monktastic1 wrote: post #93

mapcars wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm saying this only because last 1.5 years I'm doing my kriya practice which includes meditation, breathing technic and few other things and it has been working wonderfully - since I "got it" I never had a single bad day. I am comparing this to having occasional bursts of depression, loneliness, self-doubt for a few years before. I did not try strong psychedelics but the problem with them as with any kind of dr…

As a long-time meditator and psychedelic user, I disagree. People can get attached to beautiful states in both cases, and both can trigger permanent insights. I haven't felt the need to use psychedelics in years, but the realizations are still there, as strong as any I've had from meditation.

I'm not talking about insights but the effect.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#96

Post by monktastic1 » Tue, May 07, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

mapcars wrote: post #95

monktastic1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time meditator and psychedelic user, I disagree. People can get attached to beautiful states in both cases, and both can trigger permanent insights. I haven't felt the need to use psychedelics in years, but the realizations are still there, as strong as any I've had from meditation.

I'm not talking about insights but the effect.

First, I've never heard of anyone feeling "terrible" because the effects of mushrooms wore off. Second, if one does meditation for its effects, trying to make them permanent, then one is still just chasing highs. States always wear off. At least, this is the Buddhist perspective. Having been raised Hindu, I know their take is different.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#97

Post by gdubs » Tue, May 07, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #20

I would love to try a psychedelic trip with a trained therapist guiding me toward facing my fears. I’m generally a pretty anxious person (diagnosed with OCD, managed with ERP therapy), and I feel pretty confident that it would force me to face that part of me. I have no doubt that it’d be a beneficial experience. Buuuuut... part of me is super nervous about what I might also find. It’s like part of my mind wants to e…

Meditation can lead to similar insights over time, with practice. And because it doesn’t happen “all at once” (unless you jump into the deep end of a silent retreat or something) it might alleviate some of your anxiety.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#98

Post by tictoc » Tue, May 07, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

ak39 wrote: post #56

tomhoward wrote: post #49

This recent interview [1] with Jamie Wheal, co-author of Stealing Fire [2] is worth watching if you're interested in this topic. He's observed the psychedelic "revolution" in recent years, and has both positive and negative things to say about it, but on the whole he's deeply pessimistic about where it seems to be going. His observations about fashion-driven, Instagram-performative "enlightenment", and the propensity…

Thank you for the video links. I had never heard of Jamie Wheal before - I enjoyed listening to his thoughts. I also enjoy listening to Terence McKenna and Alan Watts every once in a while ... most of what they say often sounds completely irrational, outrageously verbose, ridiculous and border-line ramblings of "mad men" ... but their words are also powerfully disarming, deeply engaging and resonant and finally emoti…

Yeah Jamie Wheal is kind of along the same lines. He has a way with words to say the least. It's intoxicating actually.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#99

Post by nazgulnarsil » Tue, May 07, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #38

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few therapy modalities that can help, check them out and see if any resonate with you: core transformation (my fave), feeding your demons (buddhist), internal family systems, focusing (eugene gendlin), coherence therapy. All are predicated around the same few core concepts of having different parts of yourself that view the world in different ways, acknowledging and accepting that each of those parts has…

I'd be interested in some more reading on core transformation - do you happen to have any recommendations? Thanks!

the book by Connierae Andreas.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#100

Post by h2odragon » Tue, May 07, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

llamataboot wrote: post #28

h2odragon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trained therapist? Nah. Good, trusted friend. Someone who will be willing to clean up embarrassing bodily functions for you type of friend. You can't pay somebody to discover you, you're going to have to do that yourself. Having a companion is just to help keep things from getting messy.

Different roles. Having some good friends to help prop you up, tell you when you're being an ass, wipe your tears, etc - good and nec. Definitely not the same as a trained therapist who actually knows how to hold the mirror for you to see yourself in a different way.

Everybody's different and perhaps having someone do that role is a good thing. I'm not so sure. If you set out to discover yourself with someone else, then thats what you get, yourself with someone else. When they leave are you still the same? We're social animals, expecting to interact with someone is a different state. (yeah I'm not expressing this well but its been nagging at me for hours so I'm trying)

Personally my favorite mushroom experiences involve a full moon spring night, a coon hound, and square miles of wild woods. That's the trip I recommend; but so few people are blessed with good coon hounds now.