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Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

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Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#31

Post by toyg »

CommanderData wrote: post #9

So it's okay these days to 'label' a building filled with civilians a 'hacking' hub and blow it up? No trial. No checks. No questions asked. Wow.

The Israel-Palestine conflict runs by its own rules, or rather lack thereof. With the exception of nuclear holocaust, if there is a line or threshold to cross, you can bet someone involved in that problem has already crossed it. It’s like humanity felt obliged to have a reference implementation of all the worst behaviour it might engage in, conveniently located at the intersection of three continents.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#32

Post by chriselles »

The official IDF Twitter account @IDF posted something rather distasteful about the attack:

“CLEARED FOR RELEASE: We thwarted an attempted Hamas cyber offensive against Israeli targets. Following our successful cyber defensive operation, we targeted a building where the Hamas cyber operatives work.

HamasCyberHQ.exe has been removed.”

Counterproductive and narrative losing if you ask me.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#33

Post by int_19h »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

If you treat it as a war, was it really any different? SIGINT is generally considered legitimate military targets. So if you're explicitly hacking on behalf of one of the parties in the conflict, and especially if you're hacking military targets, why shouldn't you be considered a combatant?

It's interesting that the tweet in this article makes this point:

> this is the equivalent of saying blowing up drone pilots at Ellis AF Base is okay too.

For a party currently engaged in military conflict with US - say, Taliban - why would it not be, in terms of international rules and customs of war? Drone pilots are definitely combatants - you don't get to lob Hellfires at targets remotely, but then complain when they find you in person and shoot back. Does anybody seriously thinks otherwise?

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#34

Post by dev_north_east »

kmlx wrote: post #11
aptidude187 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule across all media is to always precede reports of Israeli killing of Palestinians in Gaza with a number of rockets, even if 24 hours before said rockets Israel has snipered unarmed protestors attempting to practise their Right of Return as guaranteed by UN Resolution 194. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about what's going on there knows that continuous building of settlements by Israel and the daily haras…

this is such a long and convoluted conflict... israel withdrew from gaza in 2005, but kept control of access points, air travel etc making gaza a weird place, partly under israel control. hamas (basically a terrorist org) literally took over gaza from fatah (a nationalist party) in a war in 2007. then you’ve got the islamic jihadis, a bonafide terror org, which started taking over from hamas, in the same gaza strip.…

> israel withdrew from gaza in 2005, but kept control of access points

Why does Egypt blockade Gaza on their side? (serious q)

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#35

Post by yostrovs »

nir wrote: post #29
aptidude187 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is such a long and convoluted conflict" - Not really, this is just a simple case of settler colonialism, anyone who claims that this is a "complex" conflict is either ignorant or deliberately trying to confuse people. Recommended reading from Theodor Herzl (founding father of zionism) to Noam Chomsky (secular jewish intellectual) for those who are truly interested in the facts: The Jewish State (Der Judenstaat)…

Usually people who see things as "simple" when most consider them complex are either extremely smart or extremely shallow. Providing Ilan Pappe as a serious source tells where you are in that range.

Chomsky, being wrong more often than right, is also a buffoon though he "sounds" smart.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#36

Post by anotherthro313 »

Israel in trying to prevent history from repeating itself, is repeating this history onto others.

The JDF murdered a friend of mine 20 years ago for the crime of protesting. They didn't even give her the dignity of a bullet or a bomb. They just ran her over with a bulldozer then later spit on her body.

We couldn't give her an open casket funeral and Israel charged her family $20k for processing her "crimes" and shipping her body back to the USA.

This is how Israel functions now, it doesn't matter if you're a terrorist or not, they will kill anybody who defies them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#37

Post by yostrovs »

chachachoney wrote: post #13
lilulo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just throw in anti-Israel propaganda regardless to what I've just said. Any comment will do. And this is going beyond accusing the state. You say "zionist talking points", - this is a pure anti-Semitism.

Do you have any evidence that there were actually rockets fired from the building which housed the attackers? If so, please solidify your point and contribute to the discussion by providing it. Equating criticism of either Israel or Zionism with anti-Semitism does real disservice to the victims of actual anti-Semitism both past and present.

Do you really know there is a war in Israel? Did you see it? Do you even consider firing of hundreds of rockets at Jews a war?

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#38

Post by yostrovs »

chriselles wrote: post #32

The official IDF Twitter account @IDF posted something rather distasteful about the attack: “CLEARED FOR RELEASE: We thwarted an attempted Hamas cyber offensive against Israeli targets. Following our successful cyber defensive operation, we targeted a building where the Hamas cyber operatives work. HamasCyberHQ.exe has been removed.” Counterproductive and narrative losing if you ask me.

This is distasteful only if you think of Hamas as worthy of receiving sympathy. They cut the throats of eight year old children. They fire hundreds of rockets at civilian areas. They keep their own population in dire poverty. They choose extreme religious goals over a better life for their people. I celebrate their destruction. The world is a better place without them.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#39

Post by bsaul »

yostrovs wrote: post #38
chriselles wrote: post #32

The official IDF Twitter account @IDF posted something rather distasteful about the attack: “CLEARED FOR RELEASE: We thwarted an attempted Hamas cyber offensive against Israeli targets. Following our successful cyber defensive operation, we targeted a building where the Hamas cyber operatives work. HamasCyberHQ.exe has been removed.” Counterproductive and narrative losing if you ask me.

This is distasteful only if you think of Hamas as worthy of receiving sympathy. They cut the throats of eight year old children. They fire hundreds of rockets at civilian areas. They keep their own population in dire poverty. They choose extreme religious goals over a better life for their people. I celebrate their destruction. The world is a better place without them.

I completely agree with your point, but OP has also a valid point. The brutality of the situation on the terrain (for the last one hundred year) makes people living there be extremely blunt and down-to-earth. And so saying like "target eliminated, good riddance" when the target in question has tried to kill you numerous times feels completely natural.

However, IDF (and israel public relation in general) is also trying to win the public opinion's hearth. And then it's a completely different audience. Most people in the west haven't experienced violence in any kind of direct way. They generally despise violence and killing above everything (which is a good thing). So whenever Israel (or israelis) speaks publicaly, they should never forget that people on the receiving end aren't as hardened and "pragmatic" as they are.

Note that this is becoming less and less true as the west is also becoming a target or radical islam terrorists. But the order of magnitude remains completely different.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#40

Post by aaron695 »

lilulo wrote: post #2

From the article: - "The attack on this building was part of other offensive operations that took place after Hamas was alleged to have fired rockets into Israel over the weekend." "Alleged", right, there were aliens firing rockets on Israel. There is nobody else to fire the rockets. Only Hamas has them. And placement of the "offensive" as a response on firing rockets at the Israel's civilians. Looks like this is ver…

> "Alleged", right, there were aliens firing rockets on Israel.

'Islamic Jihad' is reported to have fired rockets, why are you claiming these reports are incorrect?

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hundreds-of-Gaza...

They have even admitted to accidentally killing a baby on their side on Telegraph -

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Islamic-Jihad-ad...

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