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Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

news.ycombinator.com

501–510 of 589 posts

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#501
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 seems much worse pollutant than water long term, because it stays in the air. Water at high altitudes condenses, reflects some radiation back to space and then falls back down.

At high altitude, the water stays up long enough and has such a huge impact that even its long term averaged impact is greater than the CO2.

I have been completely unaware of this effect. Could you provide me with a source where I can read up on this?

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thought is kind of horrifying, but you could even make it a closed process - send your old phone to the factory, where it's burned to produce the plastics for your new phone.

That would open up a pretty good avenue for "recycling" then, and could possibly reduce waste plastic in the environment

As I learned today in another thread [1], the only problem would be that plastic is usually doped with additional elements that I assume we would somehow have to deal with when burning it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19845427

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#503
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jevon's paradox only applies because governments subsidize fossil fuels by failing to correct the market failure of their externalities. If they were taxed appropriately to compensate for the damage they do then synthetic hydrocarbon fuels would probably be viable in the cases where batteries are unsuitable because of insufficient energy density (e.g. long-distance aviation).

No. I think you really need to understand Jevon's paradox. I highly encourage you to do so - once I learned about it so much of the world became clearer.

The price does not need to be below the marginal cost of production of fossil fuel. It only needs to be below the cost of production + the cost of taxes on fossil fuel. I suggest that a taxation level that allows Jevons paradox to occur is too low.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We expect a gallon of gasoline to require approx. 60 kWh of electrical energy. If the price of that electricity is below 5 cents, the economics work. If the price is lower, the efficiency of the conversion could also be lower if that optimized other costs (like capital). Electricity is routinely below 5 cents now at utility scale (wholesale), which is where we will want to be.

60 kWh capacity EV will get you (realisticaly) 200 miles. A gallon of petrol - 40 miles (realistcally and using UK gallon). According to Tesla their charging is 92% efficient so reduce that 200 to 184 miles. Your process is 4.5 times less efficient than just putting that electricity into the EV? Is that right? If so - and your process is carbon neutral (big if) - what's the point in a future where EVs dominate?

Aircraft and cargo ships simply can't use batteries.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#505

How could the math possibly work out on this? If a gallon of gas holds 33.70 kWh of energy, and you can get cheap electricity for $0.1/kWh, you're looking at $3.37/gallon if you have a magical process that converts with 100% efficiency. Even if you hit your efficiency goal, which would be impressive, who is paying $7/gallon for gas? Just buy an electric car. This can only possibly be useful when all of the oil is gon…

who is paying $7/gallon for gas? In the UK, people pay approx $6 per gallon for gasoline.

Don't forget that UK Gallons are not the same as US Gallons 1 Imperial Gallon = 1.2 US Gallons

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nobody makes trips to the gas station to refuel. Re-fueling is something that's done on the way at a convenient gas bar, and typically takes only 2–3 minutes.

I’m very skeptical about 2-3 minutes. Maybe if you disregard lost momentum and don’t keep track of your mileage or wait for a receipt or have to go around once or twice to find a spot or... Because I keep track of my mileage and have to carefully babysit the process (likes to overflow) I’d say I lose at least 10 minutes every time I get gas, and that’s every 130 miles or so.

But A small Gas station can refuel several cars in that 10 mins

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automatic factory on Mars?

You could make a lot of stuff from the CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, for sure!

Not a chemist, but as far as I understand the process you're using to process the CO2 also needs water or at least some other source of hydrogen? Where would you get that from on Mars? (Sure, there is water on Mars but not in the atmosphere.)

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#508
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could use the alcohols as fuels directly (in flex fuel vehicles), but this wouldn't address the much larger market for gasoline. It's a simple and inexpensive upgrade, so makes sense to do it. We will definitely take advantage of carbon credits, tax incentives, etc too!

Organic feedstocks (non-fuel), although smaller isn't exactly a tiny market. Depending on how much control you have over the fixation process you might be able to tap into some high-value alcohol markets. That's the main reason I added the follow-up to the original questions. In other words, the flow of material would look like: CO2 -> polymers, drugs, and other useful solid materials There would be no [product] -> C…

Ultimately anything we make now with petroleum feedstocks could be made from CO2 mined from the air instead. Gasoline and other transportation fuels is a logical first step, but we don't need to stop there. Agreed!

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#509
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even once cars are all electric, I can’t see gas turbine engines in planes, trains and ships being replaced in a hurry. Of course most (non-electric) train engines use Diesel-electric propulsion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel%E2%80%93electric_transm... ). That's mostly because of the flat torque curve of the electric motor. Some ships do too. I'm not sure why you think that battery-electric train engines or…

A fun usage of dimensional analysis: Fuel capacity of a diesel electric locomotive: 6200 gallons Energy density of diesel fuel: 40kWh/gal Total energy capacity of full fuel load: 248 megawatt hours Tesla battery pack weight: 540kg Tesla energy capacity: 85kWh Weight of equivalent battery pack for a diesel locomotive: 248 MWh / (85 kWh / 540 kg) = 1575 metric tons Weight of a diesel locomotive: 196 metric tons So you'…

Of course, while it's neither easy, nor cheap, that train does not need to have any batteries in order to run on electricity. Much of the UK's rail network is either electrified or in the process of being electrified.

The side effect of not needing to use energy to haul your energy source around is pretty cool, too.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#510
What happens with the gasoline after it’s made? Does it get burnt again? I’m guessing the energy released from burning that gasoline must necessarily be less than the energy used in creating it. Then the net is going back to square one with regards to CO2, but with a net loss of renewable energy?

I may well be off the mark here, so would appreciate it if someone could tell me what I’m missing.

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