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A Psychedelic Renaissance

philanthropy.com

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Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#41

Post by beenBoutIT »

sharkweek wrote: post #31
h2odragon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trained therapist? Nah. Good, trusted friend. Someone who will be willing to clean up embarrassing bodily functions for you type of friend. You can't pay somebody to discover you, you're going to have to do that yourself. Having a companion is just to help keep things from getting messy.

Maybe not, but there are therapists who specialize in guided psychedelic trips who encourage exploration and fear facing. Seems like they'd know how to guide the discovery process.

We need scientific clinical trials conducted without any therapist intervention in order to understand what good these drugs do on their own. All the BS about talk-therapy being necessary for them to work is going to keep them out of the reach of most people. The reality is that psychedelics will quickly put psychiatrists out of business unless the public is convinced they can't take psychedelics safely without a shrink watching over them.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#42

Post by fujipadam »

all2 wrote: post #22
GreaterFool wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, psychedelics make you face your inner demons. Perhaps not right away because the wonders of the experience can be captivating, for a while. But sooner or later they will. Many people I talked to tried something like LSD once or twice and while they enjoyed the fun part they didn't like what they've seen once the party was over and they were left alone with their own thoughts. This is where the benefits are but…

> But then who'd gobble up those anxiety or depression or ADHD or sleeping^` pills? Could you expand on the ADHD bit? That sounds interesting as its not something I've heard a lot about.

Not sure about ADHD but there have been several anecdotal evidence of magic mushrooms helping reduce or in some cases eliminate Autism symptoms. Bear in mind that Autism is a spectrum and not everyone will react the same way

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#43

Post by blotter_paper »

sharkweek wrote: post #37
tasty_freeze wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right to be cautious. Don't let people oversell the benefits and minimize the risk. Yes, Johns Hopkins and some other places have early promising results, but these subjects were given counseling before, during, and after their trip. I'm sure for some people a lightbulb goes off and suddenly they can see the problems in their life which had been invisible to them and the benefit is immediate. Most of the time…

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. There was a part in Pollan's book where he talks about how an experienced guide will remind you to face the things in your trip that are scaring you. And that running away is what turns a trip into a bad one. My personality would naturally want to run away, where perhaps the point of the "scary thing" is to face it and deal with it in a suggestible state of consciousness. As an exam…

At the risk of overselling the benefits and downplaying the risk, I'll say this: even the trips I've had that were hell in the moment have (at least seemed to) teach me something about myself, and I don't regret them in the least. This isn't to say that a bad trip is something to be sought after, and you should definitely read up on set and setting before tripping (I would recommend being outdoors in the country on private land with good friends, daylight, and a source of upbeat instrumental music), but if it happens, just let go of all control, lay back, and remember that what feels like an eternity in the moment will be over before you know it. If you follow best practices, you'll probably have a wonderful time. If you don't have a wonderful time, you might still find it a useful experience.

Edit: oh, and bring some paint. Even if you aren't normally visually artistic, some paint and a canvas -- even a piece of plywood -- is an incredible thing to have while you're tripping.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#44

Post by skyyler »

eurticket wrote: post #29
vlan0 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just imagine something like cannabis lounge where you could take mushrooms in safe setting and if you feel overwhelmed you could talk to a trained staff member. Not necessarily a psychologist, just someone who can guide you through the experience. I really believe it could unleash incredible well-being for the society. I believe the type of person you are referring to has historically been referred to as shaman.

I'm glad someone brought this up, more than anything - and before anything we need shamans and sitters. Without these people basically dedicating their time to making sure that people are safe and feel safe.

I want to be a shaman. I feel a real calling to it. When my friends are having a bad time on substances I really enjoy helping them out of it. I wish there was a way to receive a formal training in this art, but learning on my own has been productive.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#45

Post by beenBoutIT »

katzgrau wrote: post #21
grawprog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just imagine something like cannabis lounge where you could take mushrooms in safe setting and if you feel overwhelmed you could talk to a trained staff member. Not necessarily a psychologist, just someone who can guide you through the experience. I really believe it could unleash incredible well-being for the society. I like idea of this, but I don't think I'd like to do mushrooms in a place like that. I tend to al…

Yeah and I don't think talking to a stranger, trained staff or not, is going to be anyone's cup of tea when they're on mushrooms. It should be an experience for friends whose company you truly enjoy - and trust to keep you cool if you get anxious.

The whole bit about needing other people around is leftover hype from anti-drug propaganda films. Nobody really takes a psychedelic and leaps out of a window or fries their child in a pan.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#46

Post by Swizec »

blotter_paper wrote: post #43
sharkweek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. There was a part in Pollan's book where he talks about how an experienced guide will remind you to face the things in your trip that are scaring you. And that running away is what turns a trip into a bad one. My personality would naturally want to run away, where perhaps the point of the "scary thing" is to face it and deal with it in a suggestible state of consciousness. As an exam…

At the risk of overselling the benefits and downplaying the risk, I'll say this: even the trips I've had that were hell in the moment have (at least seemed to) teach me something about myself, and I don't regret them in the least. This isn't to say that a bad trip is something to be sought after, and you should definitely read up on set and setting before tripping (I would recommend being outdoors in the country on p…

The best advice I ever got about drugs was this: “Whatever happens, just remember it’s only the drugs. It’s all gonna be over tomorrow”

Has really helped me any time I start overanalyzing what’s going on and how I’m feeling. Psychedelics or otherwise. It’s just the drugs, it will pass.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#47

Post by lsd_throw »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #32
sharkweek wrote: post #20

I would love to try a psychedelic trip with a trained therapist guiding me toward facing my fears. I’m generally a pretty anxious person (diagnosed with OCD, managed with ERP therapy), and I feel pretty confident that it would force me to face that part of me. I have no doubt that it’d be a beneficial experience. Buuuuut... part of me is super nervous about what I might also find. It’s like part of my mind wants to e…

You are right to be cautious. Don't let people oversell the benefits and minimize the risk. Yes, Johns Hopkins and some other places have early promising results, but these subjects were given counseling before, during, and after their trip. I'm sure for some people a lightbulb goes off and suddenly they can see the problems in their life which had been invisible to them and the benefit is immediate. Most of the time…

I would advise not looking in the mirror. I’m glad you found the experience valuable but this can send people into a spiral of imaginary illness.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#48

Post by blotter_paper »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #45
katzgrau wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and I don't think talking to a stranger, trained staff or not, is going to be anyone's cup of tea when they're on mushrooms. It should be an experience for friends whose company you truly enjoy - and trust to keep you cool if you get anxious.

The whole bit about needing other people around is leftover hype from anti-drug propaganda films. Nobody really takes a psychedelic and leaps out of a window or fries their child in a pan.

Ehh, I have enjoyed taking psychedelics alone many times, but I think it's probably clever to start with somebody more experienced who can keep their cool enough to remember where the towels are and help guide you to another area if something in the environment is overwhelming. Once you've been there a few times you can pretty much do this yourself, but without understanding how much set and setting affect the experience it can be difficult to remember that walking into the next room over can change everything. It's not about keeping you from jumping out of a window, it's about managing messes and mood.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#49

Post by tomhoward »

This recent interview [1] with Jamie Wheal, co-author of Stealing Fire [2] is worth watching if you're interested in this topic.

He's observed the psychedelic "revolution" in recent years, and has both positive and negative things to say about it, but on the whole he's deeply pessimistic about where it seems to be going.

His observations about fashion-driven, Instagram-performative "enlightenment", and the propensity for a little bit of enlightenment to lead one down dangerous paths (including charging big money to lead others down the same dangerous path), are resonant for me, having been through the journey myself and seen it from both sides.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkPB33bD3hQ

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Fire-Maverick-Scientists-Rev...

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#50

Post by mapcars »

GreaterFool wrote: post #5

When did we forgo > Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ? "Modern" mentality seems to be that everything is illegal unless government specifically approves. Any substance that emerges and becomes popular enough gets banned immediately (unless there's a huge backlash; I can only recall one case like that, kratom. Don't know much about that substance though). Meanwhile invasive questionable medical treatments an…

>I think psychedelics should be unbanned first, because it's the right thing to do.

It's good that you think, but it's not enough to call it the right thing

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