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Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

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Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#11

Post by kmlx »

aptidude187 wrote: post #3
lilulo wrote: post #2

From the article: - "The attack on this building was part of other offensive operations that took place after Hamas was alleged to have fired rockets into Israel over the weekend." "Alleged", right, there were aliens firing rockets on Israel. There is nobody else to fire the rockets. Only Hamas has them. And placement of the "offensive" as a response on firing rockets at the Israel's civilians. Looks like this is ver…

The rule across all media is to always precede reports of Israeli killing of Palestinians in Gaza with a number of rockets, even if 24 hours before said rockets Israel has snipered unarmed protestors attempting to practise their Right of Return as guaranteed by UN Resolution 194. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about what's going on there knows that continuous building of settlements by Israel and the daily haras…

this is such a long and convoluted conflict...

israel withdrew from gaza in 2005, but kept control of access points, air travel etc making gaza a weird place, partly under israel control.

hamas (basically a terrorist org) literally took over gaza from fatah (a nationalist party) in a war in 2007. then you’ve got the islamic jihadis, a bonafide terror org, which started taking over from hamas, in the same gaza strip.

both hamas and islamic jihadis want the annihilation of the state of israel.

i see no end in sight to the bloodshed, no matter how many civilians die.

but i do understand why people would side with israel when it comes to gaza, and side with the palestinians when it comes to occupied territories.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#12

Post by kmlx »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

the argument is that they were/are terrorists. which is partly true, hamas and islamic jihadis control gaza, want the destruction of the state of israel and are classified as terrorist orgs.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#13

Post by chachachoney »

lilulo wrote: post #4
aptidude187 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule across all media is to always precede reports of Israeli killing of Palestinians in Gaza with a number of rockets, even if 24 hours before said rockets Israel has snipered unarmed protestors attempting to practise their Right of Return as guaranteed by UN Resolution 194. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about what's going on there knows that continuous building of settlements by Israel and the daily haras…

You just throw in anti-Israel propaganda regardless to what I've just said. Any comment will do. And this is going beyond accusing the state. You say "zionist talking points", - this is a pure anti-Semitism.

Do you have any evidence that there were actually rockets fired from the building which housed the attackers?

If so, please solidify your point and contribute to the discussion by providing it.

Equating criticism of either Israel or Zionism with anti-Semitism does real disservice to the victims of actual anti-Semitism both past and present.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#14

Post by kmlx »

CommanderData wrote: post #9

So it's okay these days to 'label' a building filled with civilians a 'hacking' hub and blow it up? No trial. No checks. No questions asked. Wow.

from the israelis point of view they’re just defending themselves against terrorists.

from the terrorists point of view, the destruction of the state of israel is worth sacrificing lives.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#15

Post by bradleyhb »

CommanderData wrote: post #8
lilulo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using "zionist" as a derogatory term makes you a racist in a first place. And, because it shows your hatred towards jewish people, it make you anti-Semitic.

Opposing a state does not equate to having "hatred" of Jewish people. To no surprise, Israel with its history and conception will warrant criticism and even disgust from anyone. The same goes for any other state that acts similarly. My feeling are not exclusive to Israel, stealing land (to the degree of perfection) and oppressing minorities daily is pretty telling of Israels precieved superiority over others.

“Stealing land” is how, through economic disparity, most modern nations have been born and grown, has it not?

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#16

Post by aptidude187 »

kmlx wrote: post #11
aptidude187 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule across all media is to always precede reports of Israeli killing of Palestinians in Gaza with a number of rockets, even if 24 hours before said rockets Israel has snipered unarmed protestors attempting to practise their Right of Return as guaranteed by UN Resolution 194. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge about what's going on there knows that continuous building of settlements by Israel and the daily haras…

this is such a long and convoluted conflict... israel withdrew from gaza in 2005, but kept control of access points, air travel etc making gaza a weird place, partly under israel control. hamas (basically a terrorist org) literally took over gaza from fatah (a nationalist party) in a war in 2007. then you’ve got the islamic jihadis, a bonafide terror org, which started taking over from hamas, in the same gaza strip.…

"this is such a long and convoluted conflict" - Not really, this is just a simple case of settler colonialism, anyone who claims that this is a "complex" conflict is either ignorant or deliberately trying to confuse people.

Recommended reading from Theodor Herzl (founding father of zionism) to Noam Chomsky (secular jewish intellectual) for those who are truly interested in the facts:

The Jewish State (Der Judenstaat), (1896) [https://archive.org/details/ajewishstateana00aviggoog]

On Palestine - Noam Chomsky [https://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Noam-Chomsky/dp/1608464709/...]

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe (jewish historian) [https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe...]

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#17

Post by gizmo686 »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

... if you are living in a de-facto warzone where both sides had already escalated to bombings.

If the hacker was based in Iran, I doubt Israel would have anywhere near the same reaction.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#18

Post by chriselles »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

It's my understanding that a hacking incident that principally contributes to injury/death can justify a kinetic response.

Hacking incidents with kinetic effects are only rare outliers today, but that could change tomorrow.

Kinetic deterrence & reprisal for hacking incidents is a legitimate option, but ripe for significant abuse if allowed without clear attribution of hack and/or link to related kinetic effects.

Much like how terrorism is(or should be) mostly a law enforcement function.

Hacking should be as well.

But planning for exceptions is also important.

Especially planning to ensure exceptions don't become the norm.

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#19

Post by chriselles »

gizmo686 wrote: post #17
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

... if you are living in a de-facto warzone where both sides had already escalated to bombings. If the hacker was based in Iran, I doubt Israel would have anywhere near the same reaction.

It's worth noting that a number of Iranian's involved with Iran's nuclear program were the victims of targeted assassination in Iran.

Israel has also aggressively targeted engineers back in the 80's/90's reportedly involved in asymmetric weapon design/engineering(prior to advent of easier cross border info sharing).

Perhaps hacking tool developers would also be similarly targeted, or already have been?

Re: Ex-NSA man slams Israel for strike on alleged Hamas cyber attackers

#20

Post by seymourbuttes »

chriselles wrote: post #18
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

Everyone seems to be missing an important point here, especially for HN users. Hackers and anyone supporting them are now live bomb targets. Hackers are no longer punished by just putting them in jail. Death is a punishment option too. In the past, they were collateral damage now they are a direct target.

It's my understanding that a hacking incident that principally contributes to injury/death can justify a kinetic response. Hacking incidents with kinetic effects are only rare outliers today, but that could change tomorrow. Kinetic deterrence & reprisal for hacking incidents is a legitimate option, but ripe for significant abuse if allowed without clear attribution of hack and/or link to related kinetic effects. Much…

>Kinetic response >Kinetic deterrence & reprisal

Bombing

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