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A Psychedelic Renaissance

philanthropy.com

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Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#11

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

GreaterFool wrote: post #5

When did we forgo > Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ? "Modern" mentality seems to be that everything is illegal unless government specifically approves. Any substance that emerges and becomes popular enough gets banned immediately (unless there's a huge backlash; I can only recall one case like that, kratom. Don't know much about that substance though). Meanwhile invasive questionable medical treatments an…

I've read that it would be incredibly difficult to abuse psilocybin mushroom because humans quickly build up a tolerance. It's also impossible for a human to consume enough psilocybin to kill them.

You should be able to take any chemicals you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Even if certain drugs are potentially dangerous and they have associated risks, as a responsible well-informed adult you should have the freedom to decide.

Besides, humans do dangerous and risky things all the time! Bungee jumping, rock climbing, and sky-diving are some examples that immediately come to mind. In those situations even a small failure or mistake could easily end a life.

Legalizing it will actually make it safer, since anyone will be able to buy their drugs from a reputable store with strong quality guarantees. We've already seen this happen with marijuana.

Since we're on the topic, I also want to mention that there is ongoing work to legalize psilocybin in California. A few years back there was an initial attempt to get it on the ballot, but it failed to get enough signatures. Check out California Psilocybin Decriminalization & Research Initiative 2020 [0] if you're interested.

[0] https://decrimca.org

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#12

Post by kasey_junk »

GreaterFool wrote: post #5

When did we forgo > Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ? "Modern" mentality seems to be that everything is illegal unless government specifically approves. Any substance that emerges and becomes popular enough gets banned immediately (unless there's a huge backlash; I can only recall one case like that, kratom. Don't know much about that substance though). Meanwhile invasive questionable medical treatments an…

> when did we forgo

For certain parts of the population it was a very long time ago.

Our current drug war is just an extension of despotic laws that kept them subjugated.

That it’s been extended to a wider part of the population is a statistical error.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#13

Post by [deleted] »

grawprog wrote: post #8
GreaterFool wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, psychedelics make you face your inner demons. Perhaps not right away because the wonders of the experience can be captivating, for a while. But sooner or later they will. Many people I talked to tried something like LSD once or twice and while they enjoyed the fun part they didn't like what they've seen once the party was over and they were left alone with their own thoughts. This is where the benefits are but…

>Just imagine something like cannabis lounge where you could take mushrooms in safe setting and if you feel overwhelmed you could talk to a trained staff member. Not necessarily a psychologist, just someone who can guide you through the experience. I really believe it could unleash incredible well-being for the society. I like idea of this, but I don't think I'd like to do mushrooms in a place like that. I tend to al…

[deleted]

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#14

Post by max76 »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #11
GreaterFool wrote: post #5

When did we forgo > Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ? "Modern" mentality seems to be that everything is illegal unless government specifically approves. Any substance that emerges and becomes popular enough gets banned immediately (unless there's a huge backlash; I can only recall one case like that, kratom. Don't know much about that substance though). Meanwhile invasive questionable medical treatments an…

I've read that it would be incredibly difficult to abuse psilocybin mushroom because humans quickly build up a tolerance. It's also impossible for a human to consume enough psilocybin to kill them. You should be able to take any chemicals you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Even if certain drugs are potentially dangerous and they have associated risks, as a responsible well-informed adult you should have…

> I've read that it would be incredibly difficult to abuse psilocybin mushroom because humans quickly build up a tolerance. It's also impossible for a human to consume enough psilocybin to kill them.

"Abuse" has a much larger definition than daily use or fatal overdose. Someone ignorant of the effects or with poor judgment might take psilocybin while operating a gas stove, taking care of children, or operating machinery. It's also possible to take too much, take it too frequently, or take it in inappropriate settings and cause real harm to the user. All of which behaviors probably fall under substance abuse.

EDIT: I'm pro-legalization, but I think statements understating risk are just as harmful to society and statements overstating risk.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#15

Post by Alex3917 »

tlb wrote: post #2

The funding discussed here is for scientific studies. But it's not clear what important question is still open and needs further study. From what I've read [1, 2, 3, 4], the psychological benefits are well-established and powerful if used in the right mindset, and the health risks are also well-established and rare or minor if used carefully. So science seems to have answered the questions it can answer. The obstacle…

> Is funding scientific studies where the answers are already known an effective way to change government and social policy?

A lot of the science had to be re-done because there were methodological issues in the original research, and no one was really sure whether or not the data was faked. I think it was Rick Doblin who discovered that one of the folks in either Leary's or Pahnke's studies actually ran away during the study, but because the researcher never reported this as a possible adverse event it opened up other questions about the validity of the data. It turned out the original data was basically accurate, but it wasn't necessarily a given.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#16

Post by CameronNemo »

max76 wrote: post #14
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that it would be incredibly difficult to abuse psilocybin mushroom because humans quickly build up a tolerance. It's also impossible for a human to consume enough psilocybin to kill them. You should be able to take any chemicals you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Even if certain drugs are potentially dangerous and they have associated risks, as a responsible well-informed adult you should have…

> I've read that it would be incredibly difficult to abuse psilocybin mushroom because humans quickly build up a tolerance. It's also impossible for a human to consume enough psilocybin to kill them. "Abuse" has a much larger definition than daily use or fatal overdose. Someone ignorant of the effects or with poor judgment might take psilocybin while operating a gas stove, taking care of children, or operating machin…

Agreed -- I would never try to claim that psychedelics are anything other than powerful substances that needed to be treated with respect and caution.

Additionally, contemporary academic discussion surrounding psychotropic substances has used terminology focusing on use. Not abuse, not addiction, not anything else -- just use.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#17

Post by atoav »

GreaterFool wrote: post #6
GreaterFool wrote: post #5

When did we forgo > Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ? "Modern" mentality seems to be that everything is illegal unless government specifically approves. Any substance that emerges and becomes popular enough gets banned immediately (unless there's a huge backlash; I can only recall one case like that, kratom. Don't know much about that substance though). Meanwhile invasive questionable medical treatments an…

Also, psychedelics make you face your inner demons. Perhaps not right away because the wonders of the experience can be captivating, for a while. But sooner or later they will. Many people I talked to tried something like LSD once or twice and while they enjoyed the fun part they didn't like what they've seen once the party was over and they were left alone with their own thoughts. This is where the benefits are but…

LSD can be a incredible eye opener. But if the part it opens your eyes to is bad and you are not ready, you will have a bad time.

If you are a stable and reflected person, it could be one of the most valuable experiences in your life.

When I took LSD for the first (and only) time, I gained an incredibly valuable insight into my whole beeing that stayee with me forever. Also I was sure there was no real need to do LSD again for at least half a decade.

If you take LSD to escape from something, you arw doing it wrong

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#18

Post by njarboe »

zasz wrote: post #10
nickpp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When did we forgo >> Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness Right about the time we started screaming for government regulation every single instace we saw something we didn’t like/agree with in the world around us. "It’s for your own good" and "Think of the children" were such convenient excuses to shift our responsibility from us to an ever growing government more than happy to protect us from ourselves.

That's ahistorical and just wrong. The government saw an opportunity to selectively target its most dissident elements during the 60s and it went for it: https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich... "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And…

It's too bad this quote was published by Dan Baum in Harper's 22 years after Ehrlichman might have said it and after Ehrlichman was not alive to confirm. I would say the quotes around the text are not really appropriate for this most important of historical memories. It is not like something recorded on the Nixon tapes.

From the same CNN article we have the Ehrlichman children saying: "The 1994 alleged 'quote' we saw repeated in social media for the first time today does not square with what we know of our father. And collectively, that spans over 185 years of time with him," the Ehrlichman family wrote. "We do not subscribe to the alleged racist point of view that this writer now implies 22 years following the so-called interview of John and 16 years following our father's death, when dad can no longer respond. None of us have raised our kids that way, and that's because we were not raised that way."

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#19

Post by anythingnonidin »

tlb wrote: post #2

The funding discussed here is for scientific studies. But it's not clear what important question is still open and needs further study. From what I've read [1, 2, 3, 4], the psychological benefits are well-established and powerful if used in the right mindset, and the health risks are also well-established and rare or minor if used carefully. So science seems to have answered the questions it can answer. The obstacle…

Yes, the obstacle to wider use is policy and regulation.

For those interested, some thoughts:

There are two types of users from a policy perspective. People with specific diagnoses/diseases, and "healthy" people.

For people with specific diagnoses and diseases, the most important work is FDA approval of MDMA and psilocybin. MAPS, COMPASS Pathways, and Usona are working on this and they require a bunch of money to get through to a successful FDA approval. Funding this research is a very high leverage way to enable policy change, because the FDA has a relatively clear process to approving a drug for medical use for patients with relevant medical diagnoses.

For "healthy people," there needs to be another route. Some people are working on ballot initiatives and legislation that will impact this (see Oregon, Denver, Oakland, Iowa) and that may be a high leverage route. But the path here is less clear. As you note in some cases, some types of research can be helpful for boosting political change, whereas others aren't going to be an efficient use of capital for that goal.

Re: A Psychedelic Renaissance

#20

Post by sharkweek »

I would love to try a psychedelic trip with a trained therapist guiding me toward facing my fears.

I’m generally a pretty anxious person (diagnosed with OCD, managed with ERP therapy), and I feel pretty confident that it would force me to face that part of me. I have no doubt that it’d be a beneficial experience.

Buuuuut... part of me is super nervous about what I might also find. It’s like part of my mind wants to explore it, and the other part doesn’t, which creates a lot of inner conflict. I honestly don’t know what I’m supposed to do with two parts of my brain fighting with itself.

Side note: How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan is a fantastic book and worth a read.

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