How is the scalability of of the extraction process, both in manufacture and operation of the membrane?
Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
341–350 of 589 posts
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#342Hi Rob. I'm CTO of a company that generates electricity from waste heat at industrial facilities. Pipeline compressor stations often generate 35MWth+ in waste heat, which we can use at about 20% efficiency to generate electricity. Many pipeline compressor stations are not anywhere close to distribution lines so just merrily pump this heat up their stack. Especially with new pipelines where companies are battling (leg…
You could certainly do this, using distillation or the thermal processes Carbon Engineering is doing, and it could be worth pursuing, from a business opportunity perspective. We're focused on an implementation that can scale to >300 B gallons per year, so are pursuing an electricity only path.
Thanks. If the scale is lacking, I get it. But to be clear, I’m talking about a series of 10MW electrical power plants each with 95% capacity factor.
Using your number downthread of 60kW/gallon, that translates to about 1.4 million gallons per station per annum - even with dozens of stations per line, a couple of orders of magnitude less than your target opportunity of 300B gallons+.
Would you be willing to expand a bit on your opportunity target of 300B+ gallons/year? My understanding is that the US production of gasoline in 2018 was about 142 billion gallons, so I certainly misunderstand something.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#343Hi Rob. I'm CTO of a company that generates electricity from waste heat at industrial facilities. Pipeline compressor stations often generate 35MWth+ in waste heat, which we can use at about 20% efficiency to generate electricity. Many pipeline compressor stations are not anywhere close to distribution lines so just merrily pump this heat up their stack. Especially with new pipelines where companies are battling (leg…
> Pipeline compressor stations often generate 35MWth+ in waste heat, which we can use at about 20% efficiency to generate electricity.
Can the waste heat be used for distillation instead? To heat up the fuel/water mix to separate the two cleanly?
It would seem to me that the future of "waste heat" is to actually utilize the heat, instead of powering a relatively inefficient heat-engine. Perhaps instead of 20% efficiency, you get closer to 100% efficiency since all you'd be doing is running the fuel-water mix to the heat-source to evaporate the fuel out (I presume anyway, I'm no chemist)
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#344In spring and early summer, electricity prices in the PNW go negative due to hydropower minimum flows and wind power subsidies.[0] You said capex is low, so setup a bunch and be prepared to get paid to make fuel!
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#345How is the scalability of of the extraction process, both in manufacture and operation of the membrane?
Both are highly scalable. The CNT membrane is available in commercial modules now and can scale up further quickly.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#346In spring and early summer, electricity prices in the PNW go negative due to hydropower minimum flows and wind power subsidies.[0] You said capex is low, so setup a bunch and be prepared to get paid to make fuel! [0] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=5110
We will definitely take free power whenever possible!
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#347How could the math possibly work out on this? If a gallon of gas holds 33.70 kWh of energy, and you can get cheap electricity for $0.1/kWh, you're looking at $3.37/gallon if you have a magical process that converts with 100% efficiency. Even if you hit your efficiency goal, which would be impressive, who is paying $7/gallon for gas? Just buy an electric car. This can only possibly be useful when all of the oil is gon…
We expect a gallon of gasoline to require approx. 60 kWh of electrical energy. If the price of that electricity is below 5 cents, the economics work. If the price is lower, the efficiency of the conversion could also be lower if that optimized other costs (like capital). Electricity is routinely below 5 cents now at utility scale (wholesale), which is where we will want to be.
Intermittent renewable energy like wind also drives cost really low sometimes. This could be an alternative to grid-based storage of electricity. Comparison of capital cost and loss and value of the byproduct would be interesting.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#348How could the math possibly work out on this? If a gallon of gas holds 33.70 kWh of energy, and you can get cheap electricity for $0.1/kWh, you're looking at $3.37/gallon if you have a magical process that converts with 100% efficiency. Even if you hit your efficiency goal, which would be impressive, who is paying $7/gallon for gas? Just buy an electric car. This can only possibly be useful when all of the oil is gon…
who is paying $7/gallon for gas? In the UK, people pay approx $6 per gallon for gasoline.
For comparison, in Sydney, Australia, as of this morning, basic unleaded 91 octane fuel is about AUD 1.35 / litre at best. Which is USD 0.94 at today's exchange rate. Just under USD 4 / US gallon.
Of that, AUD 0.41 is federal fuel excise, and AUD 0.12 is GST.
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
I go on vacation a few times a year. Renting a car just for that is more expensive than extra cost of fuel. Not to mention most rental cars won't let me use my truck as a truck (putting rock in the back damages the bed, and a trailer is right out - both things I do only a couple times a year but I still own a truck for just those few times). IF this is as good as they claim I don't see electric cars as worth it as a…
Battery replacement is not really a factor under any kind of "normal" use. One Tesla owner driving for Tesloop was able to burn out a battery after extensively (exclusively) Supercharging from low charge to 95-100% charge after about 350,000 miles. Maintenance cost over that time was calculated as $0.05/mile. [1] With V3 Supercharging, you can drop in with your Model 3 at 15% and be at 80% in 24 minutes. In my road t…
Interesting stats on the battery replacement, but if my family/youth groups/etc. routinely took 20+ minutes for a gas station bio break, there'd be words. Especially if we had to do it every 150 miles (80-15%).
Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline
#350For the reasons mentioned below I'm skeptical that this is a solution to the climate problem. However, certain applications such as air travel do not currently have safe viable non-carbon power sources. Even if this is more expensive than fossil fuel, limited amounts of subsidized zero carbon fuel (~1-2% of consumption iirc) can make air travel sustainable.
Best of luck.