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Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

news.ycombinator.com

261–270 of 589 posts

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#261

By law, gasoline gets cut with ethanol, degrading engine performance. If I buy gas from you guys will it be legal to put 100% gasoline into my engine? If so that's a "killer app," (so to speak) for people who care about their engines, even if it is more expensive in early development stages.

Only seven states have laws mandating gasahol. Gas stations in all other states are just using it for profit.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#262
post #257

It's never said explicitly and I couldn't find a question about it, but everyone talks as if we'll need solar input to power this. I assume this means the machine doesn't produce enough fuel to power itself? At any rate, amazing product. Can I (eventually) buy one of those machines or donate somewhere to make my area CO2 free?

No, you cannot extract free energy from air.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#263
post #257

It's never said explicitly and I couldn't find a question about it, but everyone talks as if we'll need solar input to power this. I assume this means the machine doesn't produce enough fuel to power itself? At any rate, amazing product. Can I (eventually) buy one of those machines or donate somewhere to make my area CO2 free?

Are you asking if this is a perpetual motion machine?

Edit: Or close enough to perpetual motion that it only requires the occasional replacement of nanotubes and other materials

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of the agricultural feedstocks to biofuels are not easy to reduce further, whereas renewable electricity is getting less expensive and likely has much further to go. I think CO2 to fuel will have a decisive cost advantage over biofuels. The reason to use direct air capture rather that going for higher concentration point sources is one of scale. We want to produce fuel at scales much larger than can be accom…

Why not go for the higher concentrations now? Why not target agricultural ethanol plants now? I grant that long term they are limited, but why not use them now? Higher CO2 concentration seems like it ought to make your initial testing easier. Likewise, if you are really more cost effective than distillation all the existing ethanol plants would love to replace their boilers with your system. It seems like a simple wa…

Maybe they need to quickly scale up because of VC backing and thus a requirement for a high return on the investment?

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#265
post #257

It's never said explicitly and I couldn't find a question about it, but everyone talks as if we'll need solar input to power this. I assume this means the machine doesn't produce enough fuel to power itself? At any rate, amazing product. Can I (eventually) buy one of those machines or donate somewhere to make my area CO2 free?

Wouldn't producing the necessary fuel to fuel itself lead to an infinite energy source, essentially making this a perpetual energy machine?

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#266
I hope Prometheus becomes successful. As an interesting side effect - its success may render the need for electric vehicles less acute and maybe even not so critical at all. Especially given the not so environment friendly battery manufacturing process.

In a sense, Prometheus is a competitor to Tesla.

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#267
post #260
post #257

It's never said explicitly and I couldn't find a question about it, but everyone talks as if we'll need solar input to power this. I assume this means the machine doesn't produce enough fuel to power itself? At any rate, amazing product. Can I (eventually) buy one of those machines or donate somewhere to make my area CO2 free?

Well of course not. It does not defy the laws of thermodynamics.

Well sure, it would not be a perpetuum mobile. It would take CO2 from the air to turn into fuel, and once it runs out, there is no more fuel to be made. It creates a little CO2 by burning fuel for itself, but if that is less than the amount used for fuel production (that's the scenario where it could power itself), that would be less than it needs to generate the fuel to continue the cycle.

An oil pump can pump enough oil to fuel itself (we don't need solar to power our gasoline industry). And we can eat a plant and have enough energy to cultivate more plants to eat. I would not be surprised if it works the same here.

Edit: I guess the flaw in the logic is that, where there is a lot of energy stored in oil and plants (and plants get it from soil and the sun or so, again something external), this process is the reverse of burning. So if reverse burning costs less fuel than burning, we'd have a perpetuum mobile. Is that it? I'm sorry that this wasn't immediately obvious to me (if that is even the answer), since there are so many other fuel creating and self supporting processes...

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#268
I don't know nearly enough about the science to comment on that, so I'm just going to assume you can do this. Would your ultimate model just be to sell to gas stations? Create your own? Create a consumer product small and simple enough for people to put it in their home?

This is really cool!

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#269

How could the math possibly work out on this? If a gallon of gas holds 33.70 kWh of energy, and you can get cheap electricity for $0.1/kWh, you're looking at $3.37/gallon if you have a magical process that converts with 100% efficiency. Even if you hit your efficiency goal, which would be impressive, who is paying $7/gallon for gas? Just buy an electric car. This can only possibly be useful when all of the oil is gon…

It would not make sense today, but in 10 to 15 years, with climate regulations, having a carbon neutral jet fuel might start making a lot of sense.

Yup. We could tax extraction rather than fuel purchase. (or only tax fuels that are extracted rather than captured, or tax the latter less, or..)

Re: Launch HN: Prometheus (YC W19) – Remove CO2 from Air and Turn It into Gasoline

#270

My most immediate question (after others you already answered in this thread) is about getting enough CO2. When you start absorbing CO2 from the air, won't the CO2 in the neighborhood be depleted very quickly? And I'm assuming you can't pump enormous amounts of air either for various reasons (noise, energy usage, other environmental issues). Of course there's wind to bring more CO2, but I'm curious about your computa…

Doesn't matter, air is a fluid, so diffusion works in your favor.
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